Do you have any other conditions?
My sister gets to keep her cat
Introduction
I guess unsurprisingly - since we are now knocking on the door of the Christmas and New Year holidays (don’t worry - no holidays will be taken as far as this newsletter is concerned!) - it’s a very quiet week on the auction front.
Once or twice a week in my efforts to ensure I don’t miss a single auction of interest, I take a look at the listings in the Seiko category on Yahoo Japan and rank them in descending order of price.
This week I couldn’t help but to notice that there was a nice selection of modern Grand Seikos in platinum cases that were listed, so after a quick check-in with you fine folks on the chat to see if there would be any interest, I got the thumbs up to write them up here.
Which is a good thing, because otherwise this would have been a very short newsletter this week!
Katniss Everdeen
Grand Seiko 6156-8040
Quite a lot of action on this listing already, and it’s not really surprising as it’s a highly sought after reference, available here complete with what is probably the full bracelet (the seller states the watch will fit up to a 19.5cm wrist).
Do be aware however that there is absolutely no doubt that the case on this one has been completely reconditioned (and not remotely to the quality that we are familiar with from our friend in Poland).
A reminder of how they look when they are untouched -
Grand Seiko 5722-9010
Ok so the case on this one is clearly a little soft, but that’s pretty much par for the course with these cap gold 57GS’s.
From the investigations that I have carried out into the 57GS series, it would appear that this early variant of the reference (with the -9010 case suffix and the lion caseback medallion) was only in production from August through to November 1966. There then followed a 5 month gap prior to production of the -9011 case suffixed watches that feature the less desirable GS logo caseback medallion.
I hereby promise to finally get around to writing up a primer article on the 57GS in January 2024!
The dial looks to be in superb condition, with just the very slightest stain to the left of the applied GS logo. 5722B movement is correct (and additionally in the correct serial number range for an early -9010 watch), and whilst both fine and coarse knurled crowns can be found on both 5722-9010 and 5722-9011’s, the fine version is far more prevalent (fully 80% of the -9010’s that I have seen have the fine knurled crown).
A couple of crowns…
A quick look at these and you might think you’re looking at two examples of the same crown that have just had a differing amount of wear, but click through to the third photo (it’s rare that a seller provides an image taken at this angle for a crown) and…
Pretty certain that’s the first Grand Seiko crown on the left, and the first King Seiko (or possibly a Lord Marvel) crown on the right.
I was thinking about keeping this listing to myself, but hey - it’s Christmas! See you at the finish line for this one :)
The rare 61GS SGP buckle
So usually I wouldn’t link to an auction for this design of buckle, because I’m pretty convinced that almost every single one that gets listed is a modern reproduction.
This one however, I would err on the side of trusting, both because of the condition it is in, and because of the account that is selling it. The listing is actually hidden away in the “Parts” sub-category of the Seiko listings, so may well get missed by many, and it’s from the prolific seller who when selling watches provides just four images for potential bidders to assess the quality of the product.
Here’s a photo of what I believe to be the reproduction buckle (that assumption being based on the source that lists it from time to time, and the product that he typically deals in) -
Note the vertical position of the Seiko stamp on the inside of the buckle, and compare with the one on offer in this listing -
Whether that’s relevant or not is up for debate, but my gut says to trust this example. Actually having both in hand at the same time is probably the only way to be 100% certain though.
Do remember that, despite the claims made by the seller of the reproduction buckles, there is no evidence whatsoever that this buckle is correct for anything from the 44GS or 62GS series. The buckle is only ever pictured in contemporary Seiko publications on the 61GS. Possibly it might be considered correct for the 452x-8000 or 452x-7000 in cap gold.
It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it
Seiko Liner Chronometer full set
Popcorn at the ready to watch this auction close on Sunday evening.
The Liner Chronometer is one of those “if you know, you know” references from the Seiko back catalogue that has a cult following, and this is about as good an example as you could ever hope to come across.
At one time in my collecting journey I was keen to put together a sub-collection of the 43999 Grand Seiko, 46999 Liner Chronometer, and 49999 King Seiko. Were I still looking to do that, this would be the 46999 that I would have chased and chased and chased until everyone else just gave up and realised they had no chance of winning, no matter how high they pushed the price.
Bidding is up to 356,200 yen at the time of writing, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see that at least double by the end of the auction, because this is probably a once in a decade opportunity to pick up one of these in this condition.
A selection of modern platinum cased Grand Seikos
As mentioned in the introduction, I couldn’t help but notice an interesting selection of platinum modern Grand Seikos listed this week, and thought it might be a fun diversion to take a look at them and share some thoughts.
I’m going to list these in ascending order of original release.
Grand Seiko SBGW039
I won’t say too much on this one since I covered all the modern recreations of the first Grand Seiko in an article written earlier in the year which you can find here -
Originally launched to celebrate the 130th anniversary of Seiko in 2011 in an edition of 130 pieces, SBGW039 is one of the common of the modern era platinum cased Grand Seikos to turn up. Indeed, there are actually three separate listings for examples at the moment, although I rather suspect that two of those are duplicates for the same watch.
The one linked to here is listed at 2,750,800 Yen (plus tax), whereas the second (and third) examples have a considerably higher asking price of 4,480,000 (no additional tax). Frankly I’m not entirely sure what the reason for such a large disparity might be - both watches come complete with boxes and papers (which is only to be demanded with references such as these).
Back in 2011, the reference debuted for 2,000,000 Yen plus tax, and we will see an apparent trend as we walk through these listings that the newer the watch, the lower the premium (and indeed, rapidly turning into the higher the discount) against original retail is.
Grand Seiko SBGA107
When through the 2010’s Grand Seiko were regularly launching watches that harked back to the vintage era, there were two categories that the references fell into. There were the “recreations”, like the SBGW039 above, that set out to (almost) replicate the design of the original pieces, and then there were watches such as this SBGA107, that were referred to as “reinterpretations”.
With the reinterpretations, the product designers were given a little more free rein to take the original design and bring it more up to date for the modern era, and that is what we see here with this 9R15 Spring Drive calibered homage to the 57GS, launched to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the vintage watch in 2014.
This is reference that turns up very rarely, and I from memory this may well be the first time I’ve seen one come up for sale on Yahoo.
I have to admit that at the time of the release of the anniversary editions of the 57GS (2014 for the 50th anniversary of the reference), 44GS (2013 for the 100th anniversary of Seiko watchmaking) and 62GS (2015 for the 55th anniversary of Grand Seiko), I wasn’t much of a fan of the reinterpretations, but seeing this one again after it having dropped off my radar for such a long time, I must say that I find it rather appealing.
The asking price in the auction is the exact same price the watch originally retailed for, at 3,000,000 Yen plus tax, which, considering this was an edition of just 50 pieces, feels like a fair price to me.
At least, it does until we take a look at what’s coming up in a couple of watches’ time.
Grand Seiko SBGD201
In 2016 Grand Seiko launched what was at the time the most expensive watch they had ever offered - the 6,000,000 Yen, platinum cased, hand wound, 8 day power reserve, Spring Drive, SBGD001.
Hailing from Seiko’s famed Micro Artist Studio, it was a real statement of intent for the brand, but Grand Seiko ended up making just 8 examples of the reference prior to the rebranding exercise in 2017, where SBGD001 was replaced by the watch seen here, the SBGD201. Excepting the dial logo layout change, they are to all intents and purposes the same watch, but the discontinued SBGD001 is naturally far more sought after than the SBGD201, which remains in the range to this day.
It is somewhat surprising then to see that the seller of this watch has slapped an asking price of 7.5 million Yen (excluding tax - the tax brings the price to 8.25M Yen) on the piece, despite the fact that Grand Seiko will sell you a brand new one for 7.5M Yen including tax.
Not only that, but this one has clearly not been a safe queen.
Good luck to the seller with this one, but frankly if you are seriously considering one of these, I’d definitely recommend seeking out the earlier SBGD001 if you can track down one of the eight made. A guaranteed future classic, without a doubt.
Grand Seiko SBGH265
2018 saw Grand Seiko celebrate the 20th anniversary of its 9S caliber with the release of a limited edition of just 20 pieces of SBGH265 - the sole example of a modern mechanical Grand Seiko deserving of the honour of those three very special letters on its dial.
I have bemoaned in the past how it has been suggested that back in the vintage era, Grand Seiko had the capability to produce three VFA calibers per day, whereas in the modern era they have only managed to produce 20 pieces in 35 years, but I rather suspect that my complaints will finally be addressed next year.
Originally launched at a price of 5,500,000 Yen, you can pick up this extremely rare watch here at the slightly discounted price of 4.4M Yen, but it needs to be stressed that the watch has clearly been worn and enjoyed, and does not come with its original box and papers - something that, at this level for a modern era piece, I would suggest would be absolutely essential.
Also, don’t forget that we are almost guaranteed to see a revival of the VFA’s next April at Watches and Wonders, so if you were in the market for one of these, perhaps hold off for a few short months to discover what is coming in 2024.
Grand Seiko SBGW263
So you’re going to have to put aside the appalling photography here because this is undoubtedly the pick of the bunch of the watches featured in this section.
Hailing from the Grand Seiko 60th anniversary collection in 2020, SBGW263 was launched at a retail price of 10,000,000 Yen (excluding tax) in an edition of just 20 pieces.
Every element on the dial (and the hour and minute hands) has been hand engraved by - or under the guidance and watchful eye of - the legendary Kiyoshi Terui, who was also responsible for hand engraving the Arabic numerals on the epic Wako limited Grand Seiko SBGW021 from 2007 which, arguably to this day, remains the holy grail Grand Seiko of the modern era.
But back to the SGBW263, and what is remarkable about this listing is the price.
The watch is listed for just 5.9M Yen plus tax, bringing the final price to 6,497,000 Yen. Gotta be honest, I never thought I’d see the day when one of these became available at a 40% discount, let alone the day after the watch was listed and it hadn’t been snapped up.
But I guess that’s just an indication as to where the market is right now for second hand (I’m sorry - “pre-owned”) modern watches, and clearly the top tier Grand Seikos are no escape from the general malaise.
If anyone reading this is tempted, get in direct contact with the dealer as I suspect they will not charge you the sales tax if you choose to purchase through them, rather than through one of the proxy services.
Alternatively, what a great excuse to fly to Japan and pick it up in person!
Grand Seiko SBGW257
Our penultimate watch is another example of a recreation of the first Grand Seiko, and covered in more detail in the article linked to above.
It is also another example of a watch that remains available from the current range, but unlike the rather oddly priced SBGD201 we saw earlier, this one at least is available at a discount to the list price.
At retail, the reference sells in Japan for 4,000,000 Yen excluding tax. This one is available for 3,200,000 plus tax, taking the total to 3,520,000.
Unfortunately, once again we have a recent watch that has somehow become separated from its original box and papers, which is rather odd considering the watch was only launched as part of the 60th anniversary collection in 2020.
Frankly if I was in the market for one of these, I would prefer to spend a little extra and fly to Japan to buy a new one (tax free shopping for tourists of course), rather than take the risk on a modern Grand Seiko from just 3 years ago that doesn’t come with box and papers - that could hurt significantly should you wish to move the watch on in the future.
Alternatively, I’ve just had a look on Rakuten, and Komehyo have one of these right now - including box and papers - for 3,366,600 Yen. Buy it through FromJapan taking advantage of their usual weekly 5% discount (Wednesday and Thursday), or fly to Japan and pick it up in person and get the tax back.
Grand Seiko SLGH007
The final platinum cased modern Grand Seiko to be featured in this section is 2021’s SLGH007, a watch that I’m sure will be familiar to most who follow Grand Seiko’s modern output.
Although there appears to be just this one example listed on Yahoo (and none on Rakuten) in Japan, a quick look at Chrono24 shows four examples available - including this one.
This isn’t much of a surprise considering this was released in a limited edition of 140 pieces. I distinctly remember at the time thinking it was an extraordinarily high number for a watch that listed at 6,000,000 Yen plus tax.
On Yahoo, the watch is available at 5.5M Yen, and at today’s exchange rate, the price works out to $38,615, compared to the $39,490 being asked for it on C24. The USD/JPY rate is pretty volatile at the moment, so I guess that might have something to do with it, and possibly also the additional costs of selling through C24.
I wasn’t a fan of the aesthetics of this one when it was launched - the Evolution 9 dial furniture styling has grown on me a little since it was first introduced (it certainly seems to work a lot better in the metal than in most of the photos you come across), but the dial itself has not. Obviously this is very much a personal preference though.
What isn’t a personal preference however is the cold hard fact that there are 140 of these out there, which is a lot. With the plethora of top tier Grand Seikos available from the modern era at this price level, I can’t see this even making my top 20.
This, or for just a little more, the SBGW263? Absolute no-brainer, both aesthetically, and financially.
President Alma Coin
Grand Seiko 43999 AD dial
Kicking off the bad guys section this week with the selected contribution from our usual seller of redialed over polished junk with this 43999 AD dial.
No need to look any further than the pointy A’s in the dial code text -
As per usual, this seller has a number of listings this week, and my advice remains the same - avoid them all!
Grand Seiko 5646-7020
Now that is one heck of a faceted crystal, but unfortunately - as discussed in the chat earlier in the week - it belongs on a King Seiko Vanac, and not this Grand Seiko.
A bit of a shame because (a) it’s a really cool crystal; and (b) the watch itself is in pretty good condition.
The correct crystals for the 5646-7020 do turn up occasionally (300V66GC), but frankly if you are interested in getting hold of this reference, you’re probably better off waiting until one turns up with the correct crystal intact.
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
So it was a rather quiet week this week, but hopefully the “bonus content” made for some interesting reading. Do let me know you thoughts by either commenting below, or discussing in the chat!
For those who are celebrating it, a very Merry Christmas to you all, and for those who are not celebrating it, a very Merry Christmas to you all too!
See you next week for the final newsletter of 2023. It’s almost certainly going to be a quiet one!
SLGH007 = peer chuckles
I want that Liner tho
Thanks Gerald. Regarding the numbers of SBGD001, 8pcs seems right. Mine has number 4, produced in August 2016 and delivered in September the same year.