Doc... what if we don't succeed?
We *must* succeed.
Introduction
Well we’re certainly back into full swing now with some super watches to recommend, and fortunately not too many bad apples.
I’ve got some packing to do for a flight this afternoon, so no dilly-dallying, let’s get on with the show!
Marty McFly
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
It’s not surprising that this one is attracting a lot of interest because it’s one of the nicer examples of the first Grand Seikto to turn up in a while, with no apparent major dial issues to speak of (save a rather unfortunate flaw in the middle of the Diashock print.
Serial numbers align, the crown - although very well worn - looks to be original, and the case is pretty typical for what you can expect to find on one of these, although there is a bit of a gouge where someone has made a poor attempt at removing the bezel that might be sufficient to put you off.
But if it does, don’t worry. This won’t be the only GS First this week!
Grand Seiko 6145-8000
When the first photo of a listing shows the original price certificate, it doesn’t always end up fulfilling its potential, but in this instance, behind the appalling photos, the watch delivers.
From the listing it seems that this is someone selling a watch from his recently departed father’s collection, and it’s clear his father cherished this watch highly. Check the description for the details (it sounds like the seller might have added some minor surface scratches to the case!), and remember that even when it is challenging to assess the quality of a watch from the photos, when you see this, you should be very encouraged…
Not the first watch from the dearly departed gentleman’s collection that we will be seeing this week. Indeed, the very next watch is…
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo AD dial
It would be lovely to think that these two listings could well end up staying together. Not least because of the romance of it, but because the inner and outer boxes for the 6145-8000 have been mistakenly paired with the watch seen here.
A rare opportunity indeed to pick up what looks to be a very nice example of the AD dialed first Grand Seiko. Once again, poor photographs, but they are just about good enough to enable a decent assessment of the watch.
The only real negatives to highlight would be the handful of spots on the dial where it has degraded, the most prominent of which can be seen below;
and the slight gouging of the caseback medallion at the bottom -
One final point is that the second hand is not the one most commonly found on examples of the first Grand Seiko, but from memory this is now the third time I’ve seen an AD dialed First with this hand, and very knowledgeable vintage Grand Seiko experts in Japan do believe that it can be correct.
It’s a pity that the seller doesn’t have enough knowledge of his late father’s watch collection to know that the box should go with the 61GS - one can’t help wondering whether somewhere in his father’s belongings there is the correct box to go with this…
Grand Seiko 6146-8000
You wait months for a near dead stock 61GS, and then multiple examples turn up in the same week!
The 6145 listed earlier is probably in as good a condition as the one seen here, but in this listing, the photos are of sufficient quality to be certain the watch is superb. The box and extra tag are a nice bonus here, but were it not for the difference in presentation, we could expect the two to achieve similar results.
It will be interesting to discover just how much of a difference the presentation makes!
This is of course a relisting from a watch that featured last week, and the updated description informs us that the winning bidder did not contact the seller. 371,350 Yen is what it closed for last week, with the 3rd place bidder bowing out at 351,000. Expect it to perform similarly this week.
Grand Seiko 6156-8040
It’s missing its bracelet (which is a very rare one to turn up on its own, so be warned that you might be in for a long wait if you want to match one up in the future), but apart from that this looks to be a great example of the reference.
There is some degree of caveat emptor here as we could do with more photos of the case in profile, but from what is shown, it looks to be very sharp, with just minor surface scratches (check the final photo).
Grand Seiko 5645-7010
Yes the 564x-7010 is undoubtedly the most common vintage Grand Seiko, and is often considered as an entry piece into our little collecting niche, but there is nothing wrong with that at all. It’s actually a really good place to start.
And although it is an extremely common reference, it’s rare to stumble across one in as nice a condition as the one seen here, with what looks to be an immaculate dial and a very sharp case.
Bizarrely in the description the seller rates it as a 3 or 4 out of 10. I’d love to see what his 10’s look like!
That’s almost certainly the original strap, with definitely the original buckle attached. Clearly the watch has not been worn in a very, very long time.
Highly recommended, but be prepared for it requiring a service.
XQB070 bracelet for the 564x-7010
If you manage to pick up the 56GS above and wear it on the correct bracelet, this is the one you want. Do note however that this seller does recondition pretty much everything he lists, so don’t think you’ll be getting a true mint one. But does that really matter much with bracelets? Probably not.
Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA
I’ve lost count of the number of times this one has been listed. yes it’s in poor condition, but it is a VFA, and it is legit, so it gets a mention.
Again.
Grand Seiko 4420-9000
I swear the late dialed 44GS must be the most jinxed reference in the entire vintage Grand Seiko pantheon.
It seems there is always something wrong. Find an example with a perfect dial? The case is mashed up or repolished. Find an example with a great case? the dial has serious issues.
Which is exactly what we find here. IF you can live with that rather unsightly scratch, then you might be able to pick this up for a bargain. Or, I guess you could pick it up for the case, and then wait for one with a perfect dial and a battered case to turn up.
Vintage Grand Seikos at Japanese dealers
Although I check the main Japanese dealers websites everyday, it’s not very often that something turns up that is worth highlighting. More often that not, as is the case here, if it’s worth highlighting, then by the time Friday comes around, it’s already gone.
Such was the case this week when BQ Watch listed a couple of examples of the first Grand Seiko - one carved logo split 12, and one raised logo - yesterday. I was hoping they’d still be around this morning, but both are already on hold.
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
594,000 Yen - on hold.
The first Grand Seiko with carved logo dial and split 12 index
990,000 Yen - on hold. Congratulations if you managed to nab this one, it looks very nice indeed.
A blue dial 5646-7010 at Yonedaya
Also added this week for 158,000 Yen was this blue dialed 56GS over at Yonedaya. This is a very popular reference, and the price is very reasonable when you consider you are dealing with a professional company and that the watch will be recently serviced and ready to wear. The only slight downside is the slight spotting on the dial that will be visible in certain light and from certain angels.
The seller is at pains to highlight this though with the numerous well taken photos - nothing is hidden.
A NOS full set early dial 6146-8000 at The Tokei Club
The more astute reader might wonder why earlier on I said “multiple examples [of near dead stock 61GS] turn up in the same week!” and not “two”.
Well, here’s your answer.
Of all the “base level” 61GS, the early dial variant 614x’s are by far and away my favourites. You just cannot beat having “Grand Seiko” on the dial (remember - save for the VFA’s, these were the last vintage Grand Seikos to have the full branding shown anywhere on the watch), and that stylized Suwa logo - unique to these dials - is utterly sublime.
Additionally, these hail from the period where the certificates that originally accompanied the watches featured both movement and case serial numbers, making watches from this period the only ones in the entire vintage Grand Seiko era where we can tie the movement to its original case.
Just finding one of these with its certificate would warrant a feature, but when it also comes with its original buckle, both swing tags (the oblong white one with the catalogue number is almost always lost - it should have the serial number hand-written on the other side) and price ticket, well, it is elevated to being worthy of display in the Seiko Museum.
But we’re not done yet. Also included is what I believe to be the original Seiko branded plastic bag that would have kept the watch safe from scratching, and, the pièce de résistance, a fully intact original caseback protection sticker.
And yes, I am reliably informed that is the original black strap shown in a later photo. It comes with the correct early style buckle (now attached to a new strap), and of course the correct 36,000 branded inner box. Although it’s not shown in the photos, I am told that the outer box is included as well.
The only thing - sadly - that is not included with the set is that remarkable vintage Grand Seiko keyring (which I have never seen before) seen in the first photo, which frankly is just a tease beyond redemption!
I’ve not mentioned the condition, have I? Well, just take a look for yourself. No words needed
Argh. Having written all that I’m actually on the verge of buying it myself.
499,000 Yen. But honestly? Something in this condition is priceless.
Griff Tannen
Grand Seiko 43999
Something tells me that you won’t be needing to refer to my recently published collector’s primer on the Grand Seiko 43999 to spot the issues with this one!
Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial
Our regular contribution from our regular guy.
Grand Seiko 4522-8000
Can’t help wondering whether the guy who did the dial on the 43999 at the top of this section also did this one!
Grand Seiko 6146-8020
Not entirely sure how a genuine Arabesque dial would end up in one of these, but it has.
Obviously genuine Arabesque dials very rarely turn up on their own, and this one looks to be in very good condition. If you have an Arabesque with one of the redone dials, this might be a good opportunity to pick up the part to fix it!
Grand Seiko 4580-7000
Another VFA making a return appearance is this oddity that was extensively written up in last week’s newsletter, to where I refer you for the details!
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual copy/pasted reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
May not want to own this raised logo AD, but sure appreciate seeing it here. Very interesting watches this week.
It’s tough deciding whether to buy a museum piece - one that’s amazing to own and admire but you literally can’t wear. Maybe when I have a bigger house with a museum room.