Give us a kiss, give us a kiss

Well, really, Mr Bond!

Introduction

The purpose of this newsletter is to provide guidance on which vintage Grand Seiko auctions on Yahoo Japan might be of interest to collectors. I also detail those “dodgy” listings that you need to avoid.

What you will notice is that this isn’t just a simple list of auction listings - in discussing the merits (and demerits) of the listings I often branch off into a bit of background that I hope will be useful in helping you to learn some of the nuances of collecting vintage Grand Seiko.

This week is a fairly quiet week I’m afraid, with not much else than a handful of examples of the first Grand Seiko to recommend, and the “usual suspects” in the bad guy section.

For those paid subscribers who are reading one of these newsletters for the first time, you can access the archive of all the previous newsletters on the Substack website (or the iPhone and Android apps).

Important note for UK and EEA subscribers -

Yahoo Japan is now actively blocking connections from the UK and the European Economic Area due to the prohibitive costs of adhering to the GDPR regulations for a relatively small number of users.

To get around this for the purposes of this newsletter, links to the auctions detailed will be provided through one of the Japanese proxy companies - FromJapan. Please note that these links may not include every image included in the listing.

Whilst I have been a customer of FromJapan for many years, I do not receive any benefits from using these links.

As is the norm now, I will commence with the good guys.

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James Bond

The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

Look beneath the crazed crystal and we find what looks to be a very nice dial on this one. Clearly from the state of the case this will need a thorough service, but I think with some loving care in the hands of a good watchmaker, this will turn out to be a great watch. The crown is incorrect, and you’re unlikely to be able to source an original one, but reproduction ones are listed quite frequently.

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The first Grand Seiko with carved logo dial

Note that this seller states that he won’t deal with proxy services - something that FromJapan respect, but I think you’ll be able to bid through Buyee if you are interested.

This is an example of the later carved logo dial with the “single 12” index. Although the crown is not correct, everything else checks out - the “mountain” handset, a case serial indicating production in January 1961, a movement serial number starting 60, and the original early style caseback medallion.

The only really issue here is the quality of the dial - there are quite a few prominent stains to be seen. If you can overlook those, then this could be a good buy - they will keep the price down quite a bit I’m sure.

The more of these you see with dials like this, the more you will understand why I put such a premium on the examples with clean dials.

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The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

If you’re after an example of the most common raised-logo dialed first Grand Seiko and don’t fancy taking on the project above, this would be a great option - although I rather suspect there will be quite a difference in the prices the two auctions close for.

Unfortunately this is from that big account that only provides four photos, so you’ll have to take it on trust that the serial numbers will make sense for the dial type, but at least everything that is visible checks out - a nice clean dial with only minor issues visible, the correct crown (for once!), flat handset, and the correct later lion medallion that should date this watch to either 1962 or 1963.

Should do well.

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The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

Apologies for making it four in a row, but there is not a lot else out there this week to recommend!

Here is another nice example of the first Grand Seiko with the raised logo dial, and the early-type caseback medallion and -SD dial suffix allows us to date this one fairly accurately to between June 1961 and January 1962, although coming from the same seller as the one above, there are no internal photos to enable us to check this.

Two things to note - the crown looks to be incorrect, and the caseback has a dedication engraved in it (if anyone can provide a translation, please do leave a comment below!).

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Grand Seiko 4522-8000

As I mentioned, finding watches to recommend has been a bit of a struggle this week, but this is a great example of the 4522-800 with a really strong case with very crisp lug definition and sharp edges down the flanks. The clean dial is the icing on the cake.

One of the best examples of this reference to appear in quite some time.

Highly recommended.

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Boxes

Although finding a diverse group of watches to recommend this week has been quite the challenge, when it comes to boxes it’s an entirely different matter.

I’ve mentioned in the past how there is a growing trend of people looking to put together sets, and often they don’t really worry about what order they get the various elements in. This is really driving up the prices of the boxes, as we will soon see…

62GS and 44GS inner and outer boxes

This box is very rare. In particular, the outer box is extremely rare indeed - I’ve seen fewer than a dozen examples of the outer box both publicly sold and in prominent collections.

The last time one of these turned up was in July last year, and that auction closed for 277,000 Yen (nope - that is not a typo).

6185-8000 VFA inner box (claimed)

Ok it’s mea culpa time. A few years ago I published an unboxing video on YouTube showing the 6185-8000 in this box.

However, I no longer believe it to be the case that this is the correct box for that reference, because I discovered an old archived listing on a Japanese dealer’s site that shows a full set of the reference in a completely different box. So, if I am the guy responsible for the seller listing this as the box for a VFA, I can only apologise.

Here’s a photo from that archived listing -

Hopefully the dealer will not mind me reproducing their photo here (Fair Use under DMCA applies here anyway). As you can see - the box is very different.

As mentioned in my primer article, that VFA was actually the very first VFA ever made - its serial number is 6D0001. How I would love to know where it is now!

57GS inner and outer boxes

Fortunately no such confusion with this box, which - for the purposes of those interested solely in vintage Grand Seiko - is the correct box for the 57GS series.

However, it is also the correct box for the Seiko Liner Chronometer - a highly collectible watch much rarer than the 57’s, and so there is always very high demand for it when one turns up.

It won’t go for anything like what the 44GS box will fetch, but don’t be surprised if it ends up at near the 100k Yen mark

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It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko but I like it

Seiko 3823-7030 VFA

Whether you go for the white or yellow gold cased variants, these are just fabulous watches. I’ve owned a couple in the past, and think they represent absolutely tremendous value for what they are.

Importantly, this one is shown to be running (although to be fair, finding donor parts or even entire movements is not a challenge with these), and comes with its original 18K buckle.

Happy bidding!

Here’s a photo of the white gold version -

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Aristotle Kristatos

Grand Seiko 4420-9000

Our usual contributor is back with a vengeance this week, starting off with this 44. As always with these, you can go straight to the “K” to confirm it’s a poor redial.

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The first Grand Seiko with carved logo dial

It’s not just the dial print that is wrong here - you won’t find a carved logo first Grand Seiko with the -SD dial code suffix, the case serial number shows the case was manufactured in December 1962 - almost a year and a half too late for a carved dial, and to cap it all off, a fake aftermarket medallion (and not even the correct design).

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Grand Seiko 6146-8000 with fake ‘Arabesque’ dial

Three out of three so far, and here he is with another of his favourites. Fortunately people are waking up to these - the last one he listed (just two weeks ago) closed for ‘only’ 96,000 Yen.

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Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial

And with this extremely poorly done fake SD dial, that makes it four from four. I won’t even bother to mention the completely incorrect crown, the fake medallion, the way-too-late case serial and the horrifically polished case, because you should all have skipped reading the description as soon as you saw the photo!

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Grand Seiko 6185-8010 with the wrong dial

Yes - it’s back for the third week running.

First week out it hammered for 1,126,000 Yen and the seller canceled the auction.

Second week it got to 1,111,000 Yen and the seller canceled the auction again.

I can only assume the seller doesn’t realise the problem with the watch, and will just keep on canceling and relisting every week, believing the closing bid to be unworthy. Frankly I can’t see anyone bidding much more than they already have for this, unless they have the wherewithal to sink the money into the watch and then patiently wait for the correct spare dial to turn up.

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Fake Imperial VFA

Another appearance for this one, this time with a high minimum bid that fortunately hasn’t attracted anybody yet. Closes Friday evening Tokyo time, and I doubt it will be the last time we see it.

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Fake first Grand Seiko in stainless steel

And another appearance of one of these from the same seller.

Incidentally, this seller also regularly lists modern reproductions of vintage Seiko and Grand Seiko buckles at outrageous prices. Personally I don’t have a problem with reproduction buckles per se, as long as the seller is clear about what they are offering. But the prices this seller charges - 59,000 yen for a reproduction buckle for the first Grand Seiko - are an absolute joke.

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Redone coloured dial summary

As usual, I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, and several listings typically appear every week.