Hell of a mess.
Yeah it is.
Introduction
I guess this is what would qualify as an “average week”. The good news is, it’s very slow in the bad-guy’s section. Yes, there are a few 43999’s with wrong crowns (there always are, and I rarely bother to feature them these days because I think everyone knows what to look for - even me now!), but for once, nothing truly egregious out there, and the one watch listed, mainly to compensate for my error a couple of weeks ago (when I screw up, I’m not ashamed to own it!).
I’m sure regular service will return next week.
On the good guys team, it’s all about the beginning and the end of the vintage Grand Seiko story this week, with a couple of examples of the first Grand Seiko, and a handful from the 56GS series.
We also have both listings in both the “it’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it”, and “a watch currently with a dealer” sections - and the latter is an absolute gem. You might want to jump right to it and get back to the of the newsletter later.
Read on!
Dominic Toretto
The first Grand Seiko with carved logo dial and split 12 index
Last week we had no fewer than three examples of the extremely rare print logo dialed first Grand Seiko - the first three to appear (from Yahoo Auctions at least) in this weekly newsletter since I started publishing a little over two years ago.
Sadly none of them were in good condition, explaining why they the bidding ended up at 281,000 Yen (auction canceled), 271,000 Yen, and 171,000 Yen - showing that with these, no matter how rare the watch is, if the dial is ruined, the incremental added value for the print logo version is minimal. It will be interesting to see if any of these turn up in the future with “redone” dials.
This listing is of particular interest not just because it is for an example of the early and covetable carved logo dial with the split 12 index, but also because of the production month. If you take a look at the shot of the inside caseback, you will see that this watch was manufactured in April 1960 - the very first month of production. The movement number is - as one would hope - commensurately low at 602286, and I have seen April 1960 manufactured watches with movement serial numbers in the 601xxx to 604xxx range, so can state with a high level of confidence that everything (well, except as is almost always the case, the crown) is as it should be with this one.
Clearly it is a bit of a project watch - the description states that the watch isn’t running - but aesthetically (missing caseback medallion aside), it’s in good shape. The dial is pretty clean - there’s spotting there of course, but a cursory look would suggest that there are no major issues (do check the images very carefully for yourself if you are considering going after this one), and the case - oxidation excepted - is better than many you will come across, with well defined bevels on the lugs.
Grand Seiko 5646-8000
For some strange reason, the dials on these typically do not age well at all, and the vast majority that I come across get an immediate and automatic swipe left.
Hold on. Now there’s an idea - wouldn’t a Tinder-style interface for filtering through Yahoo Auction listings be amazing?!
This one though would appear to buck that trend, and combined with a strong sharp case and what would appear to be original bracelet (that the listing states will fit an 18.5cm wrist - although do note that to get there, it needs an extender), it gets a recommendation.
The only slight issue with the bracelet is that I can’t make out any stamping on the clasp - if you check with Anthony’s article on the vintage Grand Seiko bracelets, you will see that the clasp should be stamped with the bracelet catalogue code (XQB 040) and “Stainless Steel”. Possibly it’s just the lighting and lack of focus, but there’s nothing else I can spot on the bracelet that might suggest it wasn’t legit - certainly the applied “S” having fallen off and left a mark is common with these. Thoughts? Please do share them in the comments.
The seller states that the watch was overhauled in August, and the quickset day/date is working, so this is a rare opportunity to pick up a great example of one of these references with the confidence that when it arrives, you can put it on your wrist right away and enjoy it without any worries.
Grand Seiko 5645-7010
Staying with 56GS series watches on their original bracelets for now, and here’s a lovely clean example of the 5645-7010 on the XQB011 bracelet.
Before discussing the bracelet, let’s just get the basics out of the way. Dial nice and clean, case nice and sharp, description states the quickset functions correctly.
Interestingly, the 5645-7010 was never shown on this early bracelet - it wasn’t until the 1973 catalogue that it was shown on the later XQB070 (for details on the two, I would refer you to Anthony’s article linked above). This watch dates from July 1970, and the reference on a strap first appeared in the supplement to the second volume of the 1970 catalogue in which the 56GS series debuted.
The 5646-7010 is shown on this bracelet, but not until the second volume of the 1971 catalogue - almost a year later.
Whether the watches were available on bracelets at launch, but simply not pictured in the catalogues, I couldn’t say, but it is the case that the 1972 Seiko No. 1 Watchband Catalogue shows this bracelet as an accessory available separately, and states that it is for both the 5645-7010 and 5646-7010.
Which I guess is a very long winded way of my saying - the bracelet is correct for the watch, so go for it (just watch out for the hairs on your wrist, because this bracelet will yank on them)!
The first Grand Seiko with carved transitional dial
As with the print logo dial first Grand Seikos from last week, I’m featuring this listing despite the rather sorry state of the watch mainly from a scarcity perspective because this is a very rare - and correct - transitional piece.
Between April and August 1961, Grand Seiko phased out the carved logo dials and moved over to the raised logo. Carved logo dials usually have a dial code GSJ14H156, and raised logo dials are marked GSJ14H156E SD.
In this period however - and only in this period - we occasionally see dials with the dial code GSJ14H156E. The fascinating thing is that examples of dials with this “transitional” dial code can be found with carved and raised logos. Not only that, but the variant with the carved logo can be found with either a flat handset as seen here, or a “mountain” handset as found on the regular carved logo variants.
So, if you ever see a carved logo dialed first Grand Seiko with a flat handset like the one here, don’t dismiss it - check the dial code (it’s just visible in the photos here) and month of production (confirmed here as June 1961), and you may be looking at one of the rarest - although arguably, not the most desirable - of all variants of the first Grand Seiko. The movement number here is also in the right range for this period of production.
Such a shame about the dial on this one, and once again, we see an example of an early first Grand Seiko that has lost its caseback medallion.
Grand Seiko 5646-7010
Another 564x-7010 - it’s rare for me to feature three of these in a week - and whilst this one is perhaps not in as good condition as the earlier two on bracelets (that case has certainly had some attention), it just sneaks in due to the accessories it comes with, as you get the correct buckle and certificate, and an inner box. I say “an” inner box, because of course this is the wrong box and should be accompanying a 61GS or a 45GS - usually this problem occurs the other way around, because the Hi-Beat 36000 inner boxes are considerably rarer than the regular ones for the 56GS.
The accessories are certainly worth more than the watch here (especially considering the watch isn’t running - always read the description!), so bid accordingly!
Grand Seiko 5646-7010 cap gold
It really is 56GS central round these parts this week. I was thinking maybe I should stop with the ones already listed, but this is such a nice example of the cap gold cased 5646-7010 I just had to include it, also there’s the bonus that you can check out the correct box for this reference, which is included in the listing.
The thing to look out for on the cap gold 564x-7010’s is the vertical brushing on the case flanks. If that’s still intact, you can be pretty sure the case is in overall great condition, as we see here.
No specific mention that the day/date mechanism is functioning correctly, so prepare for the worst - and hope for the best - on that front.
It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it
Seiko M158-5000
This week’s featured watch in this section comes from a seller who actually has two other generations of early Seiko digital world timers, but for me this is the pick of the bunch - yes, even over the dual layer “world atlas” A239 that he has listed.
It’s pretty rare to come across an example of this reference - Seiko’s first digital world timer, first launched in the second volume of the 1977 catalogue - in running order, and extremely rare to find on in close to “dead-stock” condition as this one clearly is.
A Grand Seiko 6146-8010 “Arabesque” at The Tokei Club
Ok so it’s the more common vertically faceted crystal variant, rather than my favoured pyramid faceted one, but when I saw this on The Tokei Club’s Instagram feed yesterday evening, I was actually wondering whether it would last through the night without selling so that I could feature it here.
Well, last through the night it did, and whilst you may have taken a sharp intake of breath on seeing the asking price of 659,000 Yen, frankly I think it’s absolutely worth it.
If you’ve been holding out for a superb example of one of these, it’s time to take the plunge. Ok so it’s not a full-set dead-stock piece on the original strap with all the little bits and bobbins that would come with, I guess were one of those to turn up the asking price would - quite justifiably - be in the million Yen ballpark.
I’d be amazed if this lasted the weekend. The only real problem is, if you did buy it, would you dare to wear it?
Hernan Reyes
Grand Seiko 43999 AD dial
OK so by way of correcting my error from a couple of weeks ago, here’s a listing with much clearer photos of what is the incorrect coarse knurled crown for a 57GS :)
And gosh - if I’d not included it, this section would, for the very first time, have been empty!
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
Keep an eye out for a second email later today (possibly it might get delayed until tomorrow, depending on some house chores that need attending to) - I’ve got something very special indeed in the works, and am just waiting for FedEx to deliver something. You are going to need to set aside a couple of hours for this one…
Hi Gerald, just a note on the 5646-8000 with bracelet: unless there were transitional examples, the hand set looks to have come from a 564*-7010. So potential bidders might want to take note of this aspect that might affect originality. The inside of the clasp of the bracelet should be stamped with XQB040 instead of XQB050 as per the image of the vintage GS bracelets you also shared above (though none of the listing images for the 5646-8000 shows this code clearly unfortunately).
That chart was going parabolic and every rough boy to every poindexter in America knew it