I don't have friends, I got family.
Introduction
It almost feels like we’re on a roll at the moment. From mid October through to Christmas is often a very interesting time for listings on Yahoo Japan Auctions, and in the past a lot of really cool pieces have surfaced around this time of year.
Who knows, maybe I might even list something really special in the not-to-distant future…
Back to auction listings though, and this week has some crackers. Let’s cross our fingers and hope this continues!
Brian O’Conner
Grand Seiko 5641-7005
Kicking off this week with what is certainly one of the nicest examples of this reference that I can recall in quite some time.
All too often with the 564x-7005’s we find them with polished cases and patinated dials, but this one would seem to be the exception to the rule, and is in superb condition.
The only slight negative to mention is that it doesn’t have its original buckle. These do turn up occasionally and typically sell for around 100,000 Yen. My strong advice would be that if you are after one of these (and who doesn’t like a 56GS with no day or date to have to worry about?!), consider this one very seriously, and factor in the patience and cost to acquire the correct buckle at a future date.
Grand Seiko 6146-8020 blue dial
If you’re after a 6145-8020 on its original bracelet, don’t forget I have one currently up for sale here. Cue the funky music…
Go on.. take a look. Tell you what, mention you saw it here and make a decision before the weekend is out, and you can have it for $2,200 all in!
One thing you might notice if you look carefully is that the case finishing on the 6146-8020 in the Yahoo listing is different to that of the 6145-8020 that I’m selling.
Here’s a zoom into one of the auction photos -
And here is a screengrab from my video of the 6145-8020 that I am selling -
Odd, no? The 6146-8020 on Yahoo has vertical brushing on the main case flanks, but on my 6145-8020 it is flat polished.
Having had a few of these pass through my hands in very good condition, I am all but certain that both examples are absolutely correct and original - the 6145-8020 and 6146-8020 cases have different case finishing.
Here’s an example of another 6146-8020 that I once owned -
And an example of another 6145-8020 -
Back to the watch in question, and overall it looks to be in pretty good condition. There are a few minor spots on the dial, and some degredation on the dial furniture, but the case is pretty sharp and doesn’t show any signs of any significant refinishing efforts.
Obviously it is missing its bracelet, and it has to be said that the bracelets really do complete the look on these - which is probably why they can go for as much as 100,000 Yen on the rare occasions that they do turn up as parts (although always make sure they have the correct endlinks!).
Grand Seiko 4420-9000 early dial
As those who check the Substack chat will be aware, this week saw an extremely well done “re-done” early 44GS dial surface on a watch in Vietnam. Fortunately the seller was completely open about the fact, and didn’t try to pass it off as an original.
The reason this is concerning is that this is the first time I’ve been aware of the infamous (but highly skilled) Vietnamese dial restorers get to work on a vintage Grand Seiko dial. The quality of the reprint was way better than we’re used to seeing on watches on Yahoo Japan, and we are going to have to keep our wits about us in the future!
Fortunately, no such worries with the listing here, which features one of the better examples of the coveted early dialed 44GS to turn up recently, and which I am sure will have a lot of eyes on it.
With just the slightest of marks on the dial, and a case that looks like it has only ever had some gentle hand polishing, this one I am expecting to do very well - lots of people are looking out for one of these (many consider it to be the iconic vintage Grand Seiko), and I suspect this one will be considered good enough for many of them to chase.
Grand Seiko 6145-8000 early dial
It’s easy to overlook the 614x-8000’s because a lot of people have a preference for the manual wind 452x-8000’s which share a very similar design aesthetic, but I do think the early dial variant of the 6145-8000 listed here is one of those underappreciated and under-the-radar gems of the vintage Grand Seiko era.
With the regular 61GS movements, my strong preference is always for the 6145 with the date, due to the lack of quick-set and Japanese/English day wheel on the 6146. The early dialed 614x-8000 was the final vintage Grand Seiko (excepting for the VFA’s) to have “Grand Seiko” printed on the dial, and the rather charming and quirkily stylised Suwa logo seen here is unique to this reference (so much so that some in the past have suggested it is not original, but I can promise you it is!).
One other fascinating detail about the reference is the “Grand Seiko” text on the rotor. The very earliest examples of this movement also had the GS logo on the rotor, which is not seen on the watch here.
So when an example of such a fascinating reference turns up looking this good, it would be rather rude to not highlight it. I’ll leave it to you to check out the photos, but you’d be hard pressed to find another example this good.
Hopefully it will fly under the radar for someone!
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial - full set
When you’re scrolling through the auctions on Yahoo all you see initially is a single thumbnail of the first photo from the listing -
Obviously the thumbnails are a little bigger than that on my monitor, but it would be easy to write-off that listing for a first Grand Seiko on the basis of the scratch on the dial near the 8 o’clock index.
But here’s a listing that demonstrates it is always worth clicking through and checking out every photo.
That is very nearly a full set. Just four things are missing. The plastic wallet for the certificate, the rice paper that keeps the inner box from damaging the outer box, the price ticket, and the cleaning cloth.
Hold on though, there’s one more photo…
OK. So make that three relatively minor things missing then. Oh and the original strap and buckle of course.
The great news is that the seller has provided clear and unredacted photos of both the movement and the certificate, and we can see that the numbers match. It’s probably a very safe bet that the movement number on the key-shaped swing-tag also matches.
There are of course a few downsides - the outer box is “a bit battered”, and it’s a real shame about that mark on the dial at 8 (there is also some slight staining elsewhere on the dial, so do look carefully), and the case has seen better days, but I honestly don’t think those bidding on this will be too concerned - there are a lot worse ones out there, and the chances to pick up a full set of the first Grand Seiko are few and far between.
Grand Seiko 4420-9000 late dial
I don’t know where this guy keeps finding these, but he seems to have an almost endless supply of them!
In a week where there is a great example of the more coveted early dial variant of ‘the’ 44GS up for grabs, there might not be as much attention on this as there usually would be, so take a close look - nothing untoward that I have spotted, with both case and dial in great condition - and maybe have a punt at it!
Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA with blue dial
This is a relisting of an auction that was featured in last week’s newsletter, so I would direct you there for the details -
No bids as of yet, but the minimum bid is only 500,000 Yen, so the action can’t be far off.
Last week the auction closed for 1,500,555 Yen, but the winning bid was cancelled. It is highly suspicious that the top bidder on this auction (bid now deleted, so you can’t see it, but I remember things like this) was the underbidder on the second VFA auction from last week (an auction that - as we will see later - was also cancelled).
Not entirely sure what is going on here, but if you ever find yourself in a bidding war with this account, I would advise exercising some caution -
A Grand Seiko 6145-8030 at The Tokei Club
Another week, and another free plug for a vintage Grand Seiko at The Tokei Club.
A couple of weeks ago I featured a vertically faceted crystaled Arabesque in superb condition at The Tokei Club that I predicted wouldn’t last the weekend, and it didn’t.
I’m actually a little surprised that nobody has taken the plunge on this 6145-8030 yet (it was listed four days ago at 1,690,000 Yen), because I know there are a lot of collectors out there who are after one. Possibly it’s that scratch on the flank that is giving people pause, or the slightly soft case edges (at least, they look a little soft in the images - they could simply be out of focus, so do check with the seller on this)?
I think most people are aware of the fact I have a NOS full set example of this reference, but frankly you’d need to offer me triple what is being asked here for me to even consider letting it go, and I think the asking price from The Tokei Club is very fair - especially considering it comes with the original buckle.
Opportunities to purchase one of these don’t turn up very often - Yahoo Auctions has only seen about a dozen examples in the last decade - so the dilemma everyone faces is, if they pass on this one, what will the price be a year from now when the next one pops up?
FWIW, here’s what a minty example looks like (any excuse to post the next two photos!) -
Note that the case edges look soft in that image, but that’s just because they are out of focus. This is what they are actually like when they’ve never been touched since leaving the watchmaker’s bench -
But stop dreaming. This one’s not for sale!
Mose Jakande
Grand Seiko 6146-8000 with fake Arabesque dial
Here’s the weekly example of a duff watch from our friend. As usual, it’s not the only watch he has up for sale this week, and my regular advice remains in place - always err on the side of caution, and avoid anything he lists.
Grand Seiko 6186-8000
You’d have to have a very short memory span not to recognise this one - yup, it’s the second relisting of a VFA from last week.
The bidding on the previous auction closed at 1,093,000 Yen, but the auction was canceled after it closed. Did someone realise after the auction closed that there were some problems with the watch? Was the seller not satisfied with the price reached? Or, was someone being naughty and spiking the auction deliberately with no intention of buying.
Interestingly, as discussed earlier, the underbidder on this one last week was the same account that “won” the auction for the blue dialed variant.
I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what happens second time around.
If you’re after a legitimate example of this reference, don’t forget I have one available right now!
The first Grand Seiko in stainless steel case
This is not the same watch that was featured last week - that one had a print logo dial, on this one the logo is raised.
Same seller though, of course…
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
I know it’s wrong but I really like those fake ss Firsts. 🙊
Too bad about the 6186 8000 long hands shenanigans. Nice piece