Introduction
The purpose of this newsletter is to provide guidance on which vintage Grand Seiko auctions on Yahoo Japan might be of interest to collectors. I also detail those “dodgy” listings that you need to avoid.
What you will notice is that this isn’t just a simple list of auction listings - in discussing the merits (and demerits) of the listings I often branch off into a bit of background that I hope will be useful in helping you to learn some of the nuances of collecting vintage Grand Seiko.
For those paid subscribers who are reading one of these newsletters for the first time, you can access the archive of all the previous newsletters on the Substack website (or the iPhone and Android apps).
Going forward, I will be unlocking these newsletters a week after sending them out to paid subscribers. The main benefit is of course alerting paid subs to the auctions that they might be interested in bidding on (and avoiding), but I feel the educational value post-close of the auctions is only fair to share to all.
Important note for UK and EEA subscribers -
Yahoo Japan is now actively blocking connections from the UK and the European Economic Area due to the prohibitive costs of adhering to the GDPR regulations for a relatively small number of users.
To get around this for the purposes of this newsletter, links to the auctions detailed will be provided through one of the Japanese proxy companies - FromJapan.
Whilst I have been a customer of FromJapan for many years, I do not receive any benefits from using these links.
As is the norm now, I will commence with the good guys.
James Bond
Grand Seiko 6145-8000
Kicking off this week with a nice clean example of one of the most common vintage Grand Seikos, the 6145-8000.
I’ve mentioned previously in these newsletters that when it comes to the base models in the 61GS series, all other things being equal, my preference would always be for the 6145 date caliber powered watches over the 6146’s, due to the latter’s day wheel being in English only and having no quickset.
Whilst 6145-8000’s are aplenty, most will have aged a lot poorer than the example presented here, which has a clean dial and a case that retains its sharp features - especially around at the lugs.
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial, with papers
It’s pretty rare to have the opportunity to pick up an example of the first Grand Seiko complete with its original chronometry certificate.
Unfortunately in this instance, there is no guarantee that the certificate shown will actually match up with the movement number of the watch. However, I’m sure plenty of people will be happy to take the risk and bid on this one. Given how much boxes have been going for of late, I don’t doubt there are quite a few people out there looking for the right contents to fill a box they’ve purchased.
Of course if it’s a full set you’re looking to put together, you’re going to be looking for quite a few more things to complete it (swing tags, buckle, price ticket, cloth…), but the hunt is at least half the fun!
As is obvious from the photos, this is not the best example of the first Grand Seiko that one could hope to find, with that dial damage the most concerning aspect, and it would be remiss of me not to point out that the crown is definitely incorrect.
If you are considering placing a bid, it would be well worth asking the seller (through your proxy company of choice) if they can provide any evidence that the certificate does belong with the watch.
Grand Seiko 5646-7000
Whilst certainly not the most collectible of the 56GS releases, when a watch is described as “dead stock”, it’s always worth paying attention.
The seller mentions that both the inside clasp of the bracelet and the watch’s caseback have remnants of the original stickers that would have been placed there, and certainly there’s nothing to suggest from any of the provided photos that the watch is anything other than as described.
One odd detail is that bracelet - it’s not correct for this reference. The bracelet is XAB271, which whilst never shown on a watch in any of the Seiko catalogues, is listed in a 1972 bracelet catalogue that I have. In that catalogue, the bracelet is only listed as being suitable for the 6155- and 6156-8000 “Specials” -
Please see the comment below from Jacky for some further insight into the bracelet on this watch!
The inner box however is correct for a 56GS watch sold on a bracelet, so I would suggest it entirely possible that when the original owner purchased this watch, he also purchased the bracelet at the same time, and had it fitted in the shop prior to walking out the door.
Either that, or - since the seller states the watch was purchased at auction - someone has put everything together at some point in the last 50-odd years.
/edit -
Given Jacky’s observations below, it would seem that the latter option is probably more likely.
What a shame we don’t have the original shop receipt!
Grand Seiko 5722-9991
A very good looking example of the least collectible of the 57GS variants in steel. Not much more to say than that really - if you’re not after one of the more coveted references, this would be a great pick-up.
Grand Seiko 6156-8010
With its hardened stainless steel case and faceted sapphire crystal, the 6156-8010 Special it’s hard to think of a better reasonably priced starter piece for any vintage Grand Seiko collection.
The watch looks to be in very good condition overall. The photos are a bit washed out, so it’s possible the overexposure is hiding something, but from what is visible, the dial looks to be clean and the case very sharp (these HSS cases age very well indeed).
It wouldn’t surprise me if someone picked this up for the BiN price prior to the scheduled auction close.
Grand Seiko 5645-7010 blue dial
With only four photos to examine, there is always a slight risk when purchasing from this seller, as possibly there are flaws that are not presented. But at least we are able to establish from the two photos that show the dial, that most of those scratches visible above are on the crystal, and not the dial. It’s impossible to tell if the dial is completely unmarked though, so there will always be an element of risk when purchasing from this company’s listings.
The case looks good, but again you’d really want a few more photos to be able to check it out more thoroughly.
The blue dialed 564x-7010’s are far more sought after than the much more common white and silvered variants, and I expect there will be quite a bit of interest in this one, despite the limited number of images available to assess its full quality.
Grand Seiko 6146-8000 service case
Whilst I wouldn’t expect this to sell for remotely close to what a 4420-9000 service case sold for a few weeks back (no prizes for guessing who picked that up…), this is a rare example to “upgrade” your 6146-8000 should you wish to do so.
I’ve got service cases for quite a few references now (including - off the top of my head - references in the 57GS, 62GS and 44GS series), and honestly wouldn’t mind picking this one up!
Grand Seiko 6145-8000 service case
And from the same seller, here’s a service case for a 6145-8000.
What is particularly interesting thing about this one is that the case serial number indicates a production date of May 1974. The last time a 6145-8000 featured in one of the Seiko catalogues was in the second half of 1970.
I’d quite like this one as well, of course!
Grand Seiko 4522-8010
Just four pictures again, and note the small stain on the dial between in the indices at 4 and 6 (at least, it looks like it’s on the dial), but apart from that minor blemish, this looks to be a really super example of a reference I’m always more than delighted to recommend.
Note that the buckle is not correct, but… by coincidence, this week also offers up a rare opportunity to pick up the correct original 18K buckle for this reference - pictured below, which you can find at this listing.
Grand Seiko 5722-9991
Second of these to feature this week, and just as nice an example as the one above.
Except, do you spot something odd?
The watch looks to be pictured with two completely different crowns. Take a look at this photo, and compare with the above -
Also the seller mentions in the description “The accessory is the BOX for GRAND SEIKO in the photo.”, yet there is no box shown.
So I’m not really sure what to make of all that. Recommended, maybe, but definitely ask some questions first before bidding!
It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it
Seiko 3820-6000 VFA
I’m a huge fan of the precious metal cased 38 series quartz references, and it seems that in recent years, more and more people are paying attention to these.
The 3820-6000 was available in four different stone dialed versions, all of which were featured in the 1973 Seiko Special Luxury Catalogue.
The example listed here is has the tiger eye dial, and made its sole catalogue appearance in the 1973 SLC. The other three - two in white gold cases with black hematite and blue sodalite dials; and one in a yellow gold case with a red tokachi stone dial - also made appearances in the regular 1975 volume 1 and volume 2 Seiko catalogues.
Just four examples of this watch have turned up on Yahoo in the last decade, with the most recent appearance prior to this auction being from July 2021, where is sold for just 300,000 Yen.
Note that the buckle supplied with the watch is not correct - these originally came with solid 18K buckles. Also, you can expect this to look a lot better in the metal than it does in the photos - for some strange reason the seller seems to have dialed up the saturation to 11!
A Grand Seiko 5641-7000 1973 Toshiba commemorative at The Tokei Club
Based in Tokyo, The Tokei Club is garnering a well earned reputation for sourcing absolute top quality vintage Seikos.
Although having a strong emphasis on the sportier pieces - particularly chronographs and divers - they do also turn up some lovely dressier references, including the occasional Grand Seiko.
This Toshiba 5641-7000 is in about as good a condition as you could hope to find, and whilst the asking price may at first seem a little on the high side, when you’ve been collecting vintage Grand Seiko for a few years, you start to appreciate just how rarely opportunities like this present themselves. Who knows when the next one of this quality might surface, and what they might be going for then!
Gustav Graves
Grand Seiko 6155-8000
At first sight this looks to be a really good example of a 6155-8000 Special, with a very sharp case and a spotless dial.
But the dial is not correct. Spacing on the dial code is wrong, fonts on the main print are wrong. When seeing dials like this I sometimes wonder whether it is possible that Grand Seiko themselves could have created this back in the day - maybe as a service dial - but it just seems so unlikely to me that they would go to all the effort of creating a different cliche with new fonts and spacing.
Best not to take the risk and just avoid completely.
Grand Seiko 4420-9000 late dial
Just in case you missed it, earlier in the week I published a newsletter that details every listing ever featured in my Friday newsletters, organised by series, and then by reference number (or group of references).
Whilst I certainly wouldn’t recommend you read it and click through all the links in one session (that would be almost as crazy as my compiling the index in the first place), it is useful if you ever see a reference for sale anywhere, and want to check examples - both good and bad - that have been featured in the past.
If you take a look at the links for the late dial 4420-9000, you will see that this one turns up a lot.
Hopefully by now those who have been subscribers for a while will know that the safest thing to do is simply discount anything this seller lists, but for those who have signed up for the paid subscription more recently, you will be seeing this one regularly!
Avoid.
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
Him again, with one of these again.
Grand Seiko 4522-8000
Somebody went to all the trouble of re-dialing this one, and forgot to put the dial code on.
Grand Seiko 6145-8000 cross dial
A less commonly appearing redial from our regular seller.
But of course still to be avoided nonetheless.
Grand Seiko 5645-7005
A rare appearance in the baddies section for our prolific “four pictures is all you;’re going to get” seller with this obviously redialed 5645-7005.
This dial is ringing some bells. If only there was a resource where I could quickly check to see if it has been featured in the newsletter before… ;)
Redone coloured dial summary
As usual, I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, and several listings typically appear every week.
Also, I would like to point out that the bracelet on that 5646-7000 (with box) is NOT a vintage GS bracelet. If you zoom in on the 4th photo of the listing you'll see that the end links say XAB351 which is the code for a vintage King Seiko bracelet. I suspect someone must have deliberately swapped out the KS clasp for a GS clasp to mislead people into thinking it is a genuine vintage GS bracelet. You mentioned it is a XAB271 bracelet for the 6155/6-8000 Specials but if we look closely they are quite different in design. The XAB271 has flatter bracelet links whereas the XAB351 (for vintage KS) has slightly curved bracelet links. Hope that makes sense and would be good to update the post accordingly.
Are white and silver 564x-7010s the same dial aged differently or distinct references?