It's a legacy that will go on for generations.
It's a legacy that will go on for generations.
Introduction
First off, I just want to express my sincere thanks to all those who have taken up the “Founding Member” subscription - I’m truly grateful to each and every one of you for your support, and of course that gratitude is extended to everyone with a paid subscription!
Don’t forget that your subscriptions now entitle you to discounts on watches listed for sale for all time (well, up until a listing is permanently discounted for all as announced in the monthly summary newsletters) , and not just for the first seven days. Currently available watches are listed in the latest monthly newsletter -
I’ll try to get a watch listed this coming Monday, but whatever you do, do NOT miss out on the December 4th listing as I have something very, very special planned indeed…
An interesting week this week, with examples of early dialed 44GS’s leading both the good guys and the bad guys section.
We also have some “dead stock” listings to examine, and a rather special treat in the “from a dealer” section.
Dominic Toretto
Grand Seiko 4420-9000 early dial
This week sees examples of the highly coveted early dialed 44GS headlining both the good guys and bad guys sections
Arguably the iconic Grand Seiko of the vintage era, the early dial variant of the reference typically outnumbers the later dial one by something of the order of three or four to one, and you very rarely come across an example as nice as this one.
Although well presented, you do need to look very carefully beyond just that rather disappointing dial issue at three o’clock to fully realise what you are getting into here.
The case is described by the seller as being unpolished, which is always a very bold claim to make. Interestingly, this seller has been listing quite a few pieces of late, and more often than not explicitly states in the description that cases have been repolished. Clearly with the 44GS, the seller recognises the importance of not refinishing the case, but whilst the case is very well defined, there has to at least have been some degree of manual rubbing with a cloth in the past to slightly soften up the lug as seen here -
But this is really splitting hairs. At this level - and most definitely for this reference - the valuations start to rise exponentially if you want something better. What is clear - from the numerous hairline scratches and small dings on some of the case edges - is that no attempt has been made to “fix” any of the minor cosmetic issues with the case, such as those seen in the next image.
Back to the dial, and in addition to the very obvious flaw at three, if you carefully examine the images you will see quite a few more minor blemishes that are easy to overlook, such as the scratch between the indices at four and five o’clock, and some minor spotting in other areas.
Finally, the watch has the wrong crown. Both early and late dialed variants of the 44GS are shown in the original catalogues with a coarse knurled crown, an example of which can be seen here -
When the 45GS series was launched to replace the 44GS, Daini changed to a more finely knurled crown (part number 55W41E), which was also designated as the correct replacement part for that originally found on the 44GS. As such, many examples of the 44GS have had their crown replaced at service with the later design over the years. Here is that crown on a deadstock 4520-8000 -
However, unless my eyes are playing tricks on me, even that one doesn’t appear to be the crown we see on the watch here -
Off the top of my head, I’m not entirely sure which reference that crown is from - if you know, please do share in the comments!
So - quite a few negatives here when you look at the details, but that shouldn’t detract from the watch being a very good example of the reference (as long as you can get that crown sorted out!), and I suspect it will do quite well.
Grand Seiko 6246-9001
From the same seller as the above 44GS comes this almost gorgeous 62GS, although I’m not exactly sure I would agree with the description of this one being “dead stock”.
Clearly the case is extremely sharp, but it does show some of the typical dings that you would expect to have come from it being worn, rather than just stuck away in a drawer for 56 years, and then there is that rather obvious gouge (“scratch” doesn’t even begin to cover it!) in the case flank across the crown.
Quite how that happened I’m not sure, but the origin of the other rather obvious flaw on the case is pretty clear to me -
Don’t know what you think, but that to me looks like this was once on an ill-fitting bracelet that has gnawed away at the inside of the lugs.
The dial - as is so often the case with these - is absolutely pristine though. Whether or not it is enough to pull your eye away from those case issues though is going to be the question!
Grand Seiko 4522-8000
This one is the undoubted highlight of the week - a “true” dead stock 45GS complete with the original strap, buckle, inner and outer boxes, tags and price ticket. The only significant item missing is the original certificate.
And really there is nothing more to say regarding this one, other than, the best of luck to those bidding!
The first Grand Seiko with carved logo dial
Ok so there are a few issues here - not least of which is the missing caseback medallion - but it is a first Grand Seiko with the carved logo dial, so it at least deserves a brief mention.
This watch has the later single piece index at 12, and so can be dated somewhere between October 1960 and June 1961, although we don’t get to see the watch opened up, and so have no idea as to the case or movement serial numbers.
Grand Seiko 5646-7011
It may not look much from the initial photo, but click through to the listing and you will discover a cosmetically superb example of this 56GS on its original (although unusable - this is simply how these degrade over the decades) strap.
Note from the description that the quickset day/date mechanism is broken, but that really should be a pretty simple fix for any watchmaker as long as you send him or her the replacement metal part when you send it in for service.
Definitely worth chasing!
Inner box for a 44/62GS
Another week, and another example of the 44/62GS box up for grabs. Last week’s one ended up selling for 65,660 Yen, and no doubt this will go for something similar.
It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it
Citizen Chrono Master
I’m not exactly sure just how many different references there are in this “Chrono Master” series from Citizen, but there are a lot.
Personally, I have a collection of the Chrono Master Chronometers, but I believe what we see here is the “OG”, with just the Citizen applied branding and Eagle logo, and a single line of printed text.
Boy did Citizen start to fill out that dial though. Just take a look at this one to see how far they went -
The watch in this listing would make a wonderful book-end to my collection, were it not for the fact I have to be really strict with myself and only collect the Chronometer variants.
I do think it is gorgeous though, and in wonderful condition. If you do fancy “crossing over to the other side” and getting into vintage Citizens, this would be a great place to start.
A Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA with box and papers at The Tokei Club
Here we are presented with a very rare opportunity indeed - to purchase a single owner example of a Grand Seiko VFA with box and papers that looks to be in superb condition.
The asking price of 3,990,000 Yen may initially come as a bit of a shock if - like me - you have been collecting vintage Grand Seiko for a number of years over which the JPY:USD rate got as low as about 106, and used to simply shift the decimal point two places to the left to get a rough dollar price. But we live in different times right now, and at 150 Yen to the dollar, this converts to “just” $26,500, which I actually think is a very fair price.
I have always placed a significant premium on vintage Grand Seikos with boxes and papers, because they are simply so rarely found. From memory, over the years, I can count the number of examples of VFA’s with boxes and papers that I have seen (and that includes in collections, not just that have come to market) on my fingers and thumbs.
At this level, my personal preference would always be to check out the watch in person, so perhaps a good excuse for someone to jump on a plane to Tokyo!
Dante Reyes
Grand Seiko 4420-9000 early dial
Our friend has a selection of dodgy listings this week, but I thought that since we have a genuine 44GS listed in the good guys’ section, it would make sense to pick out his 44GS for here
There is no denying that over the years the individual(s) responsible for creating these redials have got better at their craft, and I suspect that there will be quite a few people out there would would take a detailed look at this one and assume it was genuine. But of course around these parts we know better!
I do hesitate to explicitly call out the tells, but they are there if you look carefully (or, perhaps for some of you now the correct dial print is so ingrained in your memories that you can just take one look at this and dismiss it as not being correct without actually needing to look at the details!).
As always, just ignore anything this guy lists for sale.
The first Grand Seiko in stainless steel with black dial
Yes it’s back again. I wonder how many more times he will be listing it and then canceling the auction because it doesn’t sell for what he thinks it deserves?
Grand Seiko 5646-7010
Here is a relisting of a watch that was featured in the newsletter three weeks ago, and I will refer you to the write-up there.
Grand Seiko 5722-9990 with 43999 SD dial
Also making a reappearance is this rather odd mismatch of 57GS series bits and pieces that we saw last week. The advice remains the same of course - hard pass.
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
For some reason there appear to be a whole lot more of these listed this week, so do be careful!
Blockbuster newsletter this week! I have a comment on every listing, which no one, including myself, needs to hear.
I was underbidder on the 44gs box last week, hopefully that guy is chillax this week :)