People either survive in the jungle, or exist in the zoo.
People either survive in the jungle, or exist in the zoo.
Introduction
This week’s biggest initial challenge was deciding whether to put the watches that was going to be the first two to be featured (because they are the top vintage Grand Seikos by number of bids) in the good guys or bad guys section.
In the end, one was an obvious bad guy, and the second? Well, following a pause for thought, I’ve led the good guy’s section with it, with an advisory note!
After last week’s rather shortened newsletter due to yours truly stupidly forgetting his laptop whilst traveling, this week’s is a bumper one, with some superb watches to recommend, a few to steer well clear of, and so many words I think I hit the “Post too long for email” warning whilst I was still writing up the just the second featured watch!
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Edward Horniman
Grand Seiko 5646-7005
Usually a 564x-7005 with a flat-polished case would go straight to the naughty corner, but I find the dial on this one absolutely beguiling (perhaps just a little more than slightly influenced by one of my pick-ups this week!).
It’s a lot easier to “rescue” a case than it is a dial, particularly when a case that originally was brushed has been polished.
Here (although the following example is on the original 18K strap), is how the case and dial would have looked originally -
As you can see, the linen textured dial was originally an almost pure-white colour, but these dials are known for patinating overtime. And the dial on the example in the auction has probably patinated more beautifully than any example of this reference I can recall seeing.
So, despite the fact the case has been ruined, as seen in the following image -
- (you really should not be able to see a reflection like that in the lug!), and despite the fact the seller states the watch is not running, I’m still going to give it a recommendation.
Parts for 56GS movements are in plentiful supply, and in the worst case scenario, just buy a running donor watch and swap the movement over, and if you’re prepared to wait, there are folks out there who will be able to bring the case back to its original brushed finished state.
Is it made to buy a watch with a bust movement and a ruined case just because of the dial? In this instance, I think absolutely - as long as you know what you are getting into, and don’t mind taking on a bit of a project!
Grand Seiko 5646-7010
Last week’s headliner -
- ended up selling for a remarkable 801,000 Yen, a result that no doubt influenced the pricing of this week’s featured watch at a dealer (more on that later).
But we don’t have to wait long to discover whether or not that result was a one-off blip, or something more tangible that is going to be supported by additional similar sales. Because this week, there are two examples of caseback stickered 564x-7010’s up for grabs.
This first one is the more unassuming of the presented lots. Whether or not the watch has ever been worn (I’m highly doubtful that a stickered caseback is going to remain stickered with anything more than extremely moderate ware) is perhaps immaterial, but do note - whether from wear or less than careful strorage - the case on this one is not pristine like last week’s example was.
Grand Seiko 43999 SD
Hard light is never flattering to watches, but the benefit for us when assessing them from afar is that - as long as the exposure isn’t completely overblown - dings and scratches on the case have absolutely nowhere to hide.
Trust me on this one when I say that this watch is going to almost certainly look way, way better in person than it does in the photos accompanying the listing, and I’m very seriously considering bidding on this one for myself - it’s been way too long since I’ve had a SD dialed 43999 in my hands!
The dial looks to be in superb condition, but as far as SD dialed 43999’s (or indeed, any 57GS) go, it’s the case that is the standout feature here.
Yes - clearly it has plenty of signs of wear and tear (although none that I can see that would concern me at all on a 61 year old watch), but crucially, it does not appear to have ever been refinished.
I use the word “refinished” rather than “repolished” deliberately, because repolished is a much abused term amongst the watch community, and I have seen plenty of instances of watches that are claimed to have never been repolished that clearly have, if you know what to look for.
If you scroll down past the description (as I have just done for the first time!) you will find a whole load more photos that show the case in much greater detail than those in the main gallery, such as the one below -
Now I don’t know about you, but what I’m seeing there is what I would term an “honest” watch that has never had any attempt whatsoever to “buff it up”. Having looked carefully at all the photos, I can’t see a single instance of a softed scratch or nick on the case.
The only slight downside - and I do consider it slight - is that the caseback medallion is damaged at the periphery. A small thing to accept I think, given the overall condition of the watch.
Of particular note is that the caseback identifies this watch as coming from the first month of production in August 1963, and perhaps even more exciting, the movement number of 300084 informs us that the movement was one of the very first 100 made.
OK I’m going to go out on a limb here and use that oft-misused word. Very often when we see a watch, we ask ourselves the question “has the case been polished”? I have found that almost without exception, if you have to ask the question, the answer is always “yes”.
It is extremely rare to come across a 61 year old watch that has clearly been well used and well loved, but upon looking at the case you go “ahh… so that is what a truly unpolished case looks like”.
For me, that’s what we have here. Maybe I’m wrong, who knows. But in writing it up, I’ve convinced myself to chase this one very hard indeed!
Grand Seiko 43999 AD dial
Usually I wouldn’t include a 43999 with the incorrect later crown, but will make an exception in this instance as I think it’s useful so that you can make a direct comparison with the SD dialed listing immediately above.
Incorrect crown aside, this is a pretty decent example of the later AD dialed 43999 and coming from a reputable seller. There are some very minor marks on the dial, but importantly, the combination of dial, caseback serial and movement serial all match up. Note how the seller covers up most of the serial numbers, but leaves the first two digits on each visible - he knows what we need to see, and it is absolutely correct for a watch dating from September 1964 to have the AD dial, and a movement with a serial number commencing with the digits 41.
As mentioned in the first paragraph, usually I would have skipped over this one, but am including it so I can show you this -
The edges of the little dings circled in red are soft, which means this watch has definitely “had some attention” following whatever it was caused them. Additionally, for a watch that has clearly had quite some use over the years (and I rather suspect from the damage on the inner edges of the lugs that it was on an ill-fitting bracelet for much of its life), there appear to be an almost complete lack of fine hairline scratches that we might normally expect.
The softer light that has been used when photographing the watch may well be responsible for hiding those scratches, but I rather suspect it is more down to the gentle refinishing that this case has almost certainly undergone, based on those little nicks highlighted above.
Importantly, the seller makes no false claim (unlike many dealers in the world of vintage Swiss watches!) that the watch is unpolished. It is presented honestly, described honestly, and it’s up to the buyer to do their own due diligence.
Despite the caveats, it’s still a great looking watch from a reputable source. Just a shame about the incorrect crown, which is getting increasingly difficult to rectify.
Grand Seiko 5645-7011
I’m sure I won’t be the only one who did a double take on first seeing this listing. At first glance I thought it was a relisting of that one that sold last week for 801,000 Yen, but no, it’s just the similar presentation that triggered that deja vu (it is from the same account) - this is indeed a different example, most obviously because it’s the 5645-, and not the 5646- that we saw last week.
Similar to the other example we saw earlier, the case does show a few light storage marks (or possibly they are they light wear marks?), but overall the watch does look to be in superb condition. If I was to really nitpick, there is one small ding on the left case flank that looks a little suspiciously soft, but we do need to allow for the fact that the apparent ever so slight softening could well simply be because it’s not actually in focus in the image.
To be fair, I have probably veered well beyond my usual - admittedly already - over-critical approach in calling that little detail out. Certainly there is absolutely no evidence that the watch has been refinished, but without that spot being in focus, it’s hard to say whether or not it might have had a few gentle swipes of a soft cloth at some point!
I don’t expect this one to reach anything like the dizzying heights of last week’s example, but let’s wait to see how it - and indeed the earlier one featured this week - fair when closing time approaches!
Grand Seiko 5722-9991
This one confused me for a moment. Didn’t I feature this one last week? Why yes, I did.
So what happened - was the auction canceled and it’s been relisted? No you slow-witted fool, don’t you remember you did the newsletter on Saturday last week, and this watch had just been listed on a seven day auction, so it’s still got a few hours to go? D’oh.
Enough talking to myself - not a great sign I hear. To save you the trouble of going back to see what I wrote last week, here it is again!
“Very rare to see this final version of the 57GS certificate. It is almost certain that this is the correct box for the -9991, because of course it could not have been sold in the Chronometer box.
A real shame about the condition of the watch though, with a very poor dial and a gouged caseback medallion the most egregious issues.”
An SD dialed 43999 at The Tokei Club
This week’s featured watch with a dealer in Japan was always going to be this one. Not just for the condition - which is the best I have ever seen for a 43999 - but because it raises some interesting questions on the production timespan for the SD dialed 43999, and it comes at a very, very, high price.
All of which was discussed in great detail in yesterday’s extra newsletter that went out to those with paid subscribers. So sorry free subs who are reading this, you’ll have to take out a paid subscription to find out what all the fuss is about!
Stanley Johnston
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
I remember checking this one out earlier in the week when it was first listed, and dismissed it out of hand assuming that it wouldn’t get much attention (I didn’t even bother to add it to my Yahoo Japan watchlist). But come Friday morning, and lo and behold not only does it have 85 bids already - with 3 days still to go - but it’s been bid up to a head scratching 443,300 Yen already (once you add the 10% sales tax on).
My initial issue with the watch was that the printing was very heavy - take a look at the zoomed in shot below -
- and then compare with the Chronometer print how I prefer to see it:
Whilst it is true that later dated “firsts” do seem to have a somewhat heavier print such seen here -
- there is still a long way to go before you get to the weight of the print as seen in the example up for auction.
Look beyond just the weight of the print however, and it soon becomes apparent that there are bigger problems here. The dial has been reprinted. It’s been such a long time since I’ve seen a print like this that I had almost forgotten about it - the fakers moved on from this style quite some time ago, and it’s been a while since one turned up.
Now that I’ve “re-seen” it, it sticks out like a sore thumb - you don’t have to look any further than the “C” in “Chronometer” to realise a redone dial is staring you in the face.
Currently there are three Japanese accounts (they all have relatively low ratings, so are extremely unlikely to be proxy accounts) battling it out that have bid over 400K for the watch. It does remain quite the mystery to me how the Japanese collectors continue to be hoodwinked by these fake dials.
Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial
The usual trash from the usual suspect. It really shouldn’t bother me that people make their living this way, but it does. Just a little.
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual copy/pasted reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.