Some day, you'll have to make good on your innuendos
Introduction
The purpose of this newsletter is to provide guidance on which vintage Grand Seiko auctions on Yahoo Japan might be of interest to collectors. I also detail those “dodgy” listings that you need to avoid.
What you will notice is that this isn’t just a simple list of auction listings - in discussing the merits (and demerits) of the listings I often branch off into a bit of background that I hope will be useful in helping you to learn some of the nuances of collecting vintage Grand Seiko.
For those paid subscribers who are reading one of these newsletters for the first time, you can access the archive of all the previous newsletters on the Substack website (or the iPhone and Android apps).
Going forward, I will be unlocking these newsletters a week after sending them out to paid subscribers. The main benefit is of course alerting paid subs to the auctions that they might be interested in bidding on (and avoiding), but I feel the educational value post-close of the auctions is only fair to share to all.
Important note for UK and EEA subscribers -
Yahoo Japan is now actively blocking connections from the UK and the European Economic Area due to the prohibitive costs of adhering to the GDPR regulations for a relatively small number of users.
To get around this for the purposes of this newsletter, links to the auctions detailed will be provided through one of the Japanese proxy companies - FromJapan.
Whilst I have been a customer of FromJapan for many years, I do not receive any benefits from using these links.
As is the norm now, I will commence with the good guys.
James Bond
Grand Seiko 6146-8020
Sadly it’s not in the best condition (these are just awesome in NOS condition, but you could be waiting years for one of those to turn up), but it’s survived the years better than most. Although a bit “dinged-up”, the case looks not to have been subject to any over-polishing, crucially retaining the brushed finishing on the flanks.
Coming from the seller who only provides four photos for each of their (thousands of!) listings, we don’t have multiple well-angled shots of the crystal and dial to establish for sure whether all those marks are scratches on the crystal (not a problem, because a replacement wouldn’t be hard to come by) or the dial (big problem, because a replacement would be nigh on impossible to find). So there is a bit of a risk there.
It’s on its original bracelet, and with the better curved endlinks, so that will help it along, but those with wrists on the larger side should note that it’s only sized up to 17cm.
Lots of interest already, and will do well I’m sure!
Grand Seiko 6245-9001
First thing to look at on any 62GS that turns up for sale are the lugs. If the case has been overpolished in the past (and the vast majority of these have - compare it to this other listing from this week just for an example), the lug definition will be very soft.
Here we can see that the example offered is in superb condition, and unless you are holding out for a NOS example, you probably won’t find one better than this.
The dial - as with most 62GS examples - looks to be in immaculate condition. There must be something about how these dials were made that separates them from almost every other vintage Grand Seiko. They simply do not age!
If you do pick this up, you’ll probably want to be sourcing a new crystal though, and the part number you’d be after is 320T01AN, and the pop up quite regularly.
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
Although the dial is for me perhaps a little too marked, there has been a lot of interest in this one already, and it comes from a trusted seller.
Whilst there is no photo of the inside caseback to show the serial number, the seller does state that the watch was manufactured in January 1963, which is in the correct timeframe to line up with all the details of the watch (handset, dial code, caseback medallion…) and the movement serial number.
Yes, the case has been polished, but these are watches that would have been purchased and worn with pride, not squirreled away in a drawer, so honestly I would not let that put you off as much as it would on some of the later stainless steel vintage references. Also, they were never that sharp to begin with - this was before Tanaka-san’s famed “Grammar of Design” of course!
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
No apologies for immediately following up with another example of the same reference.
Condition-wise, I’d say these two are probably just about on a par. However, for me this one is the more desirable because it’s an earlier example. Even though we have photographs of neither the movement nor case serial numbers, it can be dated fairly accurately based on its dial code and caseback medallion. The medallion is of the earlier type (compare the two lions to see if you can spot how they differ), and together with -SD suffixed case code, this allows us to date the watch to somewhere between July 1961 and January 1962.
Given that the watch is not from such a well known seller, and not as well photographed, as the immediately precedingly presented example, I suspect it may not achieve as strong a price, but for me, it’s the pick of the two.
Grand Seiko 5646-7010
Regular readers will know I’m a sucker for a beautifully patinated 564x-7010, and this is the first of a couple of great examples this week.
What colour do we call this - eggshell perhaps? Whatever the correct description, I think it’s stunning, and about as evenly patinated as one could ever hope for.
Not much else to say really apart from be ready for the likelihood that the watch will need servicing (as I’ve mentioned many times previously, unless a listing specifically mentions that the day/date quickset mechanism is working, assume it won’t be).
Pair this carefully with the right strap, and you’ve got a great daily beater that you’d never tire of (but just take into account that because these are such great value, a really nice strap would be a significant percentage of the price of the watch!).
Grand Seiko 4520-7000
If, like me, you were outbid for the stunning example of this reference that I featured a couple of weeks ago (it ended up closing at just under 350,000 Yen), then you might be tempted by this example.
Whilst I would highlight the degradation of the periphery of the dial as a little off-putting, the case is in excellent condition, retaining the very sharp edges and the brushing on the upper flanks.
It certainly won’t be hammering for 350K, but it will be a nice pick-up for someone I’m sure.
Grand Seiko 4520-7000
And here’s another! Perhaps that sale a couple of weeks ago has brought these two out of the woodwork.
There is just one odd thing about this one that I’ve only just noticed - the applied GS logo looks a little strange. It appears to be noticeably thinner than what I’m used to seeing. Whether it’s just sample variation or it has been replaced with an aftermarket logo, I don’t know - I certainly don’t ever recall spotting a non-genuine applied GS logo before, so I would veer towards the former option personally.
Logo aside, the dial here is in better condition that the previously featured example, and the case - although arguably showing a few more signs of age - is similarly sharp.
Grand Seiko 5646-7010
Here’s that second patinated dialed 5646-7010 that I promised you earlier.
A slightly more yellow tone to the dial here, but another example of almost perfectly even patination - I love it.
Usual caveats for 5646’s apply!
Grand Seiko 5646-7030
/Edit - See updated comment at the bottom of this section!
5646-7030’s are always sought after, primarily because of their sand textured dial.
But what makes this one really interesting is what we find when we flip it over -
Now unless I’m very much mistaken, that’s the same text that we find on the extremely rare Idemitsu 60th anniversary 6146-8010 “Arabesque” -
Which is really, really odd.
The Idemitsu “Arabesque” dates from February 1971 (the case serial is on the inside caseback) - and 1971 was the 60th anniversary of the incorporation of the company. But the 5646-7030 wasn’t introduced into the range until 1974.
I thought maybe I’d seen one of these before, but checking my database I realised what I was actually remembering was the Idemitsu 5645-7000 (the base reference for which debuted in 1970, so makes sense).
Possibly what we have here is a 5646-7030 that at some point in its history has picked up a caseback from the 5646-7000 Idemitsu commemorative.
The mystery will only be solved by opening it up, since the model reference will be stamped on the inside of the caseback, along with the case serial number.
I’m hoping to pick this one up, but based on recent experience, you fine ladies and gentlemen have a habit of outbidding me on watches I’m after! If I don’t win it, and someone here does, please please do open up the caseback and share what’s stamped inside!
/Edit -
OK so thanks to the keen-eyed subscriber who spotted the rather glaring error in this write-up!
Can I blame jetlag? Please?!
So clearly this is not a 5646-7030. You’d have thought I would have noticed the distinct lack of a day indication. Doh. And that dial - it’s not textured and washed out in the photo, it’s a regular dial from a 5645-7000.
The case? Yes - that’s from a 5646-7030. But given the dial and the fact it’s clearly a 5645 movement, I rather suspect what we have here started live as a 5645-7000 Idemitsu commemorative, which for some reason has ended up in a 5646-7030 case.
Mystery solved and now I no longer need to purchase it!
Thanks Rashid!
It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it
Seiko Motorist
This week’s newsletter is actually going out a day early, because I will be traveling tomorrow morning. And how fortuitous is that, because it means I can feature this absolute beauty, the auction for which closes in a little under 5 hours from this newsletter hitting your inboxes.
I’ll let the pictures do the talking. Click on through, and imagine being the first person to strap that onto their wrist and taking it out for its inaugural drive!
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial at Watch CTI
If you’re after a great example of the first Grand Seiko and would rather not take the risk of buying from Yahoo Auctions, CTI have a very nice example of the raised logo dialed variant available right now for what I consider to be a very reasonable 440,000 Yen. Remember that you are purchasing a fully serviced watch from one of the longest standing and most reputable dealers around.
And if you buy direct from the website and have the watch shipped outside Japan, you get the sales tax refunded (making the watch just 400,000 Yen).
If this is still available after the weekend, I would be most surprised!
Alec Trevelyan
Grand Seiko 5641-7005
Kicking off this week’s bad guys is a watch that is totally legitimate, but sadly the case has been polished. These should have fully brushed cases (such as the example of the 5645-7005 I have available for purchase here), and I’d suggest avoiding if you can the temptation to pick up a polished example like the one in this auction.
The first Grand Seiko in stainless steel
I’ve written extensively on the steel cased examples of the first Grand Seiko in the past. The legitimacy of any of them is questionable, but if you did want to take the risk of picking one up hoping that one day the necessary provenance would emerge, then this is not one you should be considering.
As we will see from the next featured listing, it’s from a seller who has a bit of a reputation in dealing with dodgy watches and dodgy dials (not to mention dodgy buckles), and should be avoided.
The quality of the dial printing is getting better - I’m pretty sure this is a very recently created dial. The “Chronometer” text is pretty much spot-on (which is worrying to see), but there are other issues that I won’t highlight.
Fake “Imperial VFA”
Last week, I had the honour to hold in my hands a legitimate example of what this watch is pretending to be, and to be perfectly frank, I find the fact that the seller of this watch thinks he can get away with his ridiculous pretense that he doesn’t know what he’s trying to con people with, just about the most egregious thing I have ever witnessed in watch collecting.
It makes my blood boil.
Shame on him.
Here’s the real one, sat on a table at a restaurant in Paris, next to my patinated 4580-7010. My sincere thanks to the gentleman collector who jumped on the Eurostar just to meet up for dinner, and so graciously shared this priceless piece of history.
To say I was awestruck would be the understatement of the decade.
Redone coloured dial summary
As usual, I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, and several listings typically appear every week.
In fact, this week we even have a new colour!
Beautiful Imperial VFA! That watch is the whole reason I got into vintage watches! I'm honestly a bit jealous you got to come across this holiest of grails 😋.
Did he happen to tell you in what country he found it in? Been trying to figure out what countries known models have come from so far!