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Introduction
A whole week has gone by and - as you can probably tell from the early despatch of this newsletter - I still haven’t completely recovered from my jetlag!
Last week in my jetlagged haze I completely forgot that, since it was the first newsletter of the month, I should have shared a paywalled version of the newsletter to those with free subscriptions - apologies. I will make amends by this week by - for one week only - making the full newsletter available to all, so that you fine folk with free subscriptions can see what you’re missing out on every Friday! I’ll also open up the comments on this post to all - do feel free to share your thoughts on this week’s listings.
A fascinating week this week, not least because there are no fewer than three different 6185-8020/1 VFA’s (the ones with the “Kubrick” dials) up for grabs. One at auction, and two at different Japanese dealers.
The three are very different when it comes to quality however, so to find out more about them, and the other featured listings from this week’s Yahoo Japan Auctions, read on!
Paul Atreides
Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA
Top of the list with currently the most bids in the Grand Seiko category on Yahoo Japan this week is this rather sorry looking VFA.
Don’t know about you, but I couldn’t wear this. After all, there is such a thing as “too much wabi-sabi”, but I guess where that line is drawn will differ for every collector. It’s a shame about the dial, because the case looks to be in pretty good condition, save for a relatively minor scratch on the top right lug.
I suspect people are mainly going to be bidding on this one for the parts, but at 313,000 it’s already above what I’m prepared to pay for what I am after most (the crown!). It will be interesting to see what it closes for.
As an aside, early in my collecting years I fell for one of these whose dial had been reprinted. Ultimately, I ended up using the movement to hot-rod a 6159-7001 (Citizen had a chronometer diver back in the 1960’s, it only seemed right to create a Seiko one!), and the case and dial have been sitting around rather forlornly ever since. The case I will naturally be hanging onto, but perhaps this is a good excuse to let the dial go.
Should a paid subscriber win this auction and want the dial, drop me a line and I’ll send it off to you gratis.
Excuse the crappy iPhone over-processing on the image - the print is a lot better than the photo would imply!
Grand Seiko 6146-8050 blue dial
Well, the dial was originally blue of course, but as with so many Seikos of the era, 50 years down the line pretty much all traces of the blue hue have vanished as the dial patinates to a dark charcoal colour.
The 614x-8050’s are always popular with collectors, with a number of interesting features such as their VFA-esque cases, faceted crystals, and chunky dial furniture. Interest gets raised to a higher level when - as with this example - they are presented on their original bracelets.
Unfortunately though, this one isn’t in the best condition. Look through the photos and you will see that the crystal is pretty scratched up, and the seller reports that the watch actually isn’t functioning.
No mention of the size of the bracelet, but there are quite a few removable links still there, which is always good to see.
A bit of a project watch here, what with the movement not running, but many 61GS parts are pretty easy to come by (worst case scenario, just wait for the opportunity to pick up a beaten up watch as a donor), so I’m sure quite a few will be following the auction closely.
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
Possibly the dial might be a little too “spotty” for some tastes, but for me the key thing with dials on first Grand Seikos is to ensure they don’t have any significant stains or blotches, such as those to be seen on this carved dial example, that is also up for auction this week (just click on the image if you want to check out the auction) -
Back to the raised logo watch, and unfortunately the seller has obfuscated the serial numbers, but the later type lion medallion on the caseback implies that this watch will be from 1962 or 1963, which almost certainly means that crown is not correct. But it does kinda work, and as regular readers will know, rightly or wrongly, there is quite a bit of acceptable leeway when it comes to crowns on these, so perhaps consider it a point of interesting discussion should anyone ever pull you up on it when the watch is on your wrist, rather than something to be ashamed of!
The case is I guess about average for one of these, and all in all, I think it would make a great example to put into the rotation, especially if you ditch that rather unsightly flexible bracelet, and invest in a nice strap!
Grand Seiko 5646-7010
I always like to include an example of the 564x-7010 in these newsletters as it is for many collectors the “gateway drug” into the world of vintage Grand Seiko.
Produced in vast numbers in the first half of the 1970’s, every week there are many listings for these, and it’s not much of a challenge to find one worth considering. Regular readers will recognise from just the lead photo that this one comes from the company that only ever takes four photos of a watch, but they are a well chosen four, and mostly you can get a sense as to the condition of the watch and spot any obvious flaws.
Certainly not the best example you could ever hope to see, but that just means it should be tremendous value come hammer time. And if it rises above your planned budget, no need to chase vigorously as another will be along shortly!
Usual caveat - always work on the assumption that unless explictly stated otherwise, the movement will need a service to fix a broken cog in the day/date setting mechanism. If it turns up and the quickset is functioning correctly, consider it a bonus.
Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial
Good examples of the SD dialed 43999 are turning up increasingly rarely these days, so I’m sure there will be a lot of interest in this one.
Case serial dates it to the first month of production (August 1963), and the serial number of the movement lines up with this since it starts with 30. The dial looks to be in superb condition, but unfortunately the crown is not original (and we all know how hard it is to track down the original crowns for these). At least the person who worked on this fitted it with a crown that is coarsely knurled, so it soft of looks OK!
The biggest caveat here though is that this is presented by a dealer who reconditions the cases on pretty much every watch he sells. As stated in the past, the refinishing is generally done pretty well, but in this instance it does look very soft, and there are signs that prior to reaching his hands it must have been pretty beaten up.
So, the wait for the purists for an exceptional example of a 43999 SD to turn up continues!
XQB070 bracelet for the Grand Seiko 564x-7010
From the same seller as the SD dialled 43999 immediately above, which means this bracelet will have been refinished, but as usual, he’s done a good job.
XQB070 bracelet for the Grand Seiko 564x-7010
And here’s another! I rather suspect this one hasn’t been refinished. Lighting is completely different between the two listings, so it’s quite hard to tell.
Note that this one has more links than the previous example. I count 14 on left side here (compared to 12 on the refinished one), and 18 on the right (the same number on the refinished one).
Toying with the idea of picking this one up myself actually, and will be keeping a close eye on it.
A 6185-8020 VFA at Yonedaya
This one was shared in the chat when it got listed earlier in the week, and I suspect it may well be the cheapest you will see a VFA from a dealer this year. 1,098,000 Yen is under $7,500, which frankly would be an absolute steal, were it not for one thing.
I have never seen a case on a VFA that has been polished to this extent. Utterly ruins the watch (as clearly the dealer understands, hence the price).
I guess however it would make a lot of sense to pick this one up were you to have a spare case to donate to it. But who would have one of those just lying around? ;)
A 6185-8021 at Sweetroad
![Kawasaki store [Grand Seiko] 61GS VFA/Ref.6185-8021/Made in 1971/w-30382](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/$s_!Xim4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F299c3b82-49fa-4dde-8bef-9c1a5742adfb_900x900.jpeg "Kawasaki store [Grand Seiko] 61GS VFA/Ref.6185-8021/Made in 1971/w-30382")
What price a 6185-8020/1 from a Japanese dealer that comes with a case that hasn’t been polished to death?
Well, based on this example - almost exactly double that of a ruined one, because 2,180,000 Yen is what Sweetroad are asking for it. It’s only just been listed (pretty sure it wasn’t there yesterday), and comes with the advantage of a recent service back at the mothership.
Clearly based on recent listings, the Japanese dealers are marking up the asking prices for VFA’s, and it’s fair to say there has been quite a lot of activity in the market recently both publicly, and behind the scenes - I’ve sold four in the last month and desperately need to find replacements!
Baron Vladimir Harkonnen
Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again - for as long as people keep buying this junk, this guy will keep churning it out.
Grand Seiko 43999
From the AD logo, one can only assume that this 43999 from January 1964 originally had the AD logo, but whatever effort the redialer put into the main text on the dial - which was not much - (s)he clearly expended even less when it came to the dial code.
No redeeming factors here whatsoever, unless you’re after the movement for parts!
Grand Seiko 4520-8000
Just a nice honest example of one of the most keenly sought after vintage references. Nice clean dial, and a sharp case with just a hint of some softening around the lugs.
But always read the description - the watch isn’t running. I guess someone might take it on as a project, but I think the rather more likely scenario is that a bidder gets carried away looking at the photos and doesn’t check the description!
Grand Seiko 5772-9990
No, your eyes are not deceiving you, and no, I haven’t made a mistake with the headline for this one.
Flip it over and you’ll see that it really is a 43999 SD dial in a 5722-9990 case from June 1965. A missing caseback medallion and no movement shot, but the presence of the correct coarse-knurled crown almost certainly means you’ll find a 430 or 5722A movement in there. My guess is that it will be the former, and that this started life as a legit SD dialed 43999, whose movement, dial and handset have at some point in the last 60 years found their way into a later case (that case - missing medallion excepting - does look very nice though, with sharp lines a very well defined bevel).
Unfortunately we will probably never find out if my hunch is correct, since I think it unlikely anyone here will be buying this one.
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual copy/pasted reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
Oh hey - look at this, Founding Subscribers - there’s a new button just for you! Not sure how this is going to work, but since I STILL haven’t got around to organising a live chat, maybe this might be of interest!
Thank you for the newsletter per usual!!
My 6185-8021 at 1,080,000 JPY from a Japanese dealer was completely mispriced then eh. Owe you a beer! 🍺