We did all that for a damn cigar?
No. You did that for a job.
Introduction
The debacle of Yahoo Japan’s technical glitch a couple of Sundays ago led to a bumper week last week with several of the auctions that people were unable to bid on in the closing hours being relisted, resulting in almost a double feature.
Remember how a few weeks back I noted that Yahoo Auctions seem to follow the pattern of Beethoven symphonies where are good one (the odd numbers) are followed by a relatively poor one (the even numbers). Well, I think we’re in for one of those sub-par weeks I’m afraid, with a bit of a paucity of auctions to recommend.
But hey - even the even numbered Beethoven symphonies have their good points, and so it is with this week’s listings, with one particularly fascinating and rare (yet very affordable) piece being listed last night.
Maestro - music please! Or should that be, Gentlemen - start your engines!
Brian O’Conner
Grand Seiko 6146-8000 on bracelet
There are a couple of proxy accounts in a right battle for this one - bidding is up to 223,222 Yen already with 2 days still to go - and its unsurprising why.
Rare metal examples excluded, the Oyster-style bracelet on this 6146-8000 is probably one of the rarest of all the vintage Grand Seiko bracelets, and arguably the best looking of the lot.
In this photo we can see that the bracelet reference is stamped on the underside of the final link. Whilst the jury is out on whether or not examples of this bracelet that we see without this stamp are genuine or not, there is no doubting the legitimacy of this one.
Although not mentioned in the listing itself, someone has asked the obvious question - “how big a wrist does the bracelet fit” - and the answer has been given as “approximately 18cm”, so it will be suitable for the vast majority of collectors out there.
The watch itself looks to be in overall good condition, although the case does appear to have been polished.
The box is interesting - with the watch dating from March 1969, it is almost certain that it was sold before the introduction of any of the 56GS series on bracelets, and so the 56GS box specifically designed to present watches on their bracelets would not have been available to use.
Certainly it is my personal preference to have 61GS watches in the boxes with the additional “Hi-Beat 36000” line of text embroidered on the inside of the lid, so it’s good to see one here, and with what looks to be a good condition outer box as well, it’s only going to add to the amount those battling collectors are going to be willing to pay for this one.
At the end of the day, this auction is all about the bracelet. It will be very interesting to see just how far it goes!
Grand Seiko 5646-7030
Here is a particularly nice example of one of the more collectible 56GS references - the 5646-7030.
It looks like the seller waited for a nice sunny day before shooting this one, and it’s clear from the images that the watch is in very good condition indeed, with one of the profile shots really highlighting very crisp case edges and the brushed finishing of the upper case facets -
Do check out the description though - the wording is a little suspicious regarding the actual functionality of the watch, but quite frankly, when a -7030 this good looking turns up, I think it’s probably worth the risk since it would be so cheap and simple to pick up a donor watch should the movement require any serious work.
As an added (and quite valuable) bonus, the watch comes complete with what looks like its original strap and buckle, and the correct swing tag as well.
Just 27,500 Yen at the moment with two days to go, but this will go a lot higher. Pair it with the generic 56GS certificate and the inner and outer boxes, and you’ll end up with a very attractive set indeed.
Movement/dial/handset for a Grand Seiko 6145-8000 in 18K gold
It may seem a little odd to be highlighting this listing, but for some reason many of the 18K gold cased 6145-8000’s that I see come to market have redone dials.
Obviously what has happened here is one of the most demeaning things that can ever befall a vintage watch - it’s case has been melted down for the scrap metal value. Sadly this occurs far too frequently with vintage Grand Seikos (and indeed early precious metal quartz references), which is frankly ridiculous since the value of the watches - without exception - way exceeds the value of the gold in the case.
I suppose that maybe if the case had been heavily polished there is an argument for meltdown, but I can’t even bring myself to melt down a case for a 4520-8010 whose wonderful texture has been completely polished away!
Back to the listing at hand. So the reason for sharing this one is that if you can ever see an 18K cased 6145-8000 in your future, I highly recommend picking this up, just in case one turns up with a redone dial. The redone dial of course significantly devalues the watch, so you might end up with a bargain!
Yes - the dial here isn’t perfect by any means (and other things on show - such as the bent second hand - clearly have some issues), but it’s much more preferable than a faked one.
XAB511 bracelet for the Grand Seiko 614x-8050
The majority of 614x-8050’s that turn up have long since been separated from their original bracelets, which means there are always plenty of collectors out the on the hunt for one of these (which - bizarrely - looks to have its endlinks attached upside down). Or is this a deliberate subterfuge and perhaps they are not the correct ones?
Hmm. Not sure what to think on that to be honest.
If anyone has one of these to hand and can check what the underside of the endlink looks like, please do share your observations in the comments below.
Actually (you can tell this is just a stream of consciousness and I don’t edit, can’t you!), looking at this photo from the listing, the profile looks good to me afterall -
Ok so that’s the end of the listings with bids, but there was one fascinating watch that got listed overnight at a minimum bid price that has no bids yet…
Grand Seiko 6146-8009
From the front, this one may not seem to be all that interesting - just another above average example of a reference that, and let’s be honest here, not too many collectors are interested in.
But flip it over, and…
… it reveals on its caseback the first two of three very interesting details.
This is clearly a cap gold cased 6146, and yet not a mention of that - it simply says “Base Metal”. That alone is enough to inform us that this was a watch made for the export market, since for customs purposes, watches shipped to certain territories (the US among them). The second detail is of course the reference number - 6146-8009, with the 9 at the end of the case code providing additional evidence that this was a watch destined for an overseas market.
Unfortunately, I have yet to come across a Seiko export catalogue featuring this watch, although there are two very close misses that are detailed in my write-up of the vintage Grand Seiko’s that appear in export catalogues that have surfaced to-date, which you can read here -
In that article you will see a photo of the example of this reference that is my collection, and that has serial number close to the one in the listing.
Quite how many of these were manufactured, and for which specific market, is currently unknown, but hopefully at some point in the future more evidence as to the reason for their existence will be forthcoming.
Oh yes - I did say there was a third very interesting detail about this reference didn’t I?
Take a look at third and final photos in the listing. I won’t spoil the surprise here!
It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it
A fascinating reference from the early years of quartz for your delectation and delight this week. It’s probably unlikely to sell for the asking price, but when a piece like this turn up, it is certainly worth a mention.
Seiko 3823-5010
I’ve written before about the remarkable precious metal cased (and often braceleted) references that Seiko were producing in the early years of quartz. Sadly, these are all too rarely seen nowadays, with many of them no doubt falling to the same fate as that 6146-8000 featured earlier in this newsletter.
If my research is correct, there were no fewer than 28 distinct quartz references with either VFA or Superior branding that were presented in cases made from either 18K gold, or platinum. To put that into context, that’s exactly the same number of similarly branded quartz references that were released in stainless steel (or plated/capped).
Extremely expensive, audaciously designed, precious metal quartz watches were very much “a thing” back in the early to mid 1970’s.
The 3823-5010 featured here debuted in the 1973 edition of the Seiko Special Luxury Catalogue, and remained in the range up until its final appearance in the first volume of the 1975 regular catalogue.
There is clearly a lot of gold in this one, and it’s interesting to note that whilst at launch it sold for 1,000,000 Yen, over the course of its catalogue appearances it went through two price increases, with the final price in the 1975 catalogue raising to an eye-watering 1,400,000 Yen.
On offer here for basically the same price that it was listed for in the 1974 Seiko Special Luxury Catalogue, when you consider how values have risen for other references of that era, 1.3M Yen might seem reasonable. But sadly demand for watches like this is not great, and it’s unlikely to sell.
For what it’s worth, only one other example of this reference has turned up on Yahoo in the past. Back in 2014, an example was “sold” by the same seller twice. Once in September for 311,310 Yen, and then again three months later for 341,000 Yen.
This is however not the same watch.
Sadly there are a couple of rather obvious scratches on the incredible faceted crystal. I rather doubt that anyone reading this is going to purchase this watch though, so that’s a problem we won’t have to worry about!
Carter Verone
Grand Seiko 6156-8000
Kicking off the bad guys this week with a regular appearance of a redialed Special from “you know who”. As always, the advice is to be very, very careful indeed if you are considering purchasing something from this seller - I’ll only be featuring one of his listings each week.
This is actually one of the better redials, but it’s still easy to spot - the text on the legitimate dials has very small serifs, which are completely missing here.
Here’s a legit print. Note also the broad flat top to the “A” in “Special”, and compare it to the almost pointed “A” on the reprinted dial - another sure giveaway.
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment” so be careful out there.
I picked up that 6146-8009. Interesting having the Suwa logo case back with the DANI stamp on the inside. It is a handsome watch. Thanks for your help!
Interesting. What is your perspective on the extent of Daini branded parts appearing (‘from factory’) on Suwa dialled examples?