Who's got a plan B?

Plan B? Plan B? We need plan C, D, E- We need more alphabets!

Introduction

Well we’ve certainly got a busy line-up this week, with brace of VFA’s (does anyone even use the term “brace” anymore?), both early and late dial 44’s, some 614x-8050’s on bracelets (including one that is claimed to be NOS), and a few other choice listings as well (including an “old friend” making an unwelcome return), so I’d better get on with it!

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Dominic Toretto

Grand Seiko 6156-8010 “Special”

First up is what may well be considered as the direct successor to the 6146-8010, featuring both the hardened stainless steel case and vertically faceted crystal that we find on the earlier “Arabesque”.

The significant upgrade here is of course the 6156 “Special” movement, which in the day was regulated to +/- 3 seconds per day. If it’s the vertically faceted crystal you are after, from a usability perspective, I would personally always recommend the 6156-8010 over the 6146-8010 for the simple reason that the former has quicksetting on both the day and date, whereas the earlier watch only has a quickset date. Having said that, prices do seem to be stronger for the Arabesque, as we saw last week with that absolutely gorgeous example at The Tokei Club (it sold as predicted).

Obviously the pyramid faceted Arabesque sits proudly at the top of the pile though! But then I would say that, wouldn’t I? ;)

For sale - Grand Seiko 6146-8010 "Arabesque"

Back to the watch in question.

This one looks to be a really good example with a clean dial, unchipped crystal, and a nice sharp case, so it’s unsurprising that there is quite a bit of interest in it already. Just one thing to watch out for - you will note from the link provided that FromJapan state the seller doesn’t deal with proxy services. This may be an FJ thing (as I have explained previoulsy, sometimes it’s actually FromJapan’s way of saying they don’t want to deal with the seller because they’ve had some troubles in the past), or it may be more widely applied. Check that you can bid for this through your proxy service of choice well in advance - you don’t want to be caught out in the last few minutes on Sunday evening when their customer service is fast asleep.

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Grand Seiko 6145-8000 18K gold

This one is a relisting from an auction a couple of weeks ago, so rather than repeat myself, I will refer you to that newsletter for the details.

This is where my jurisdiction ends.

Last time around the bidding got to 400,000 Yen, but the seller canceled the auction. I guess he’s looking for a little more than that!

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The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

Next we have an example of the first Grand Seiko with the raised logo dial.

This by far the most common of all the variants, and this is a particularly good example, with a dial that shows no major issues (there appears the be the slightest of stains around the raised logo, but I don’t think you’d even notice it on the wrist) - just the usual spotting and some very minor scratches towards the center of the dial that perhaps were caused when the hands were removed in a service.

The case is also in good condition with well defined lugs, and I suppose you could consider the 56GS box and certificate a little bonus!

We don’t get a clear shot of the inside caseback, so can’t nail down the month of production precisely, but the caseback medallion is the latter type, indicating that this will be a watch produced in either 1962 or 1963. We can actually get a lot narrower timeframe for the production from the movement number, 300488. The earliest production month for a watch with a movement number commencing 30 that I have in the database is April 1963, and I would be very surprised to find a date earlier than that from the case reference number.

From what we can see of the inside caseback, it looks like the watch was serviced in September of this year, so hopefully the watchmaker did a good job, and you won’t have any issues should you choose to chase this one!

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Grand Seiko 6146-8050

It’s a real shame about the scratches on the crystal on this one, particularly because it’s pretty rare to come across a 614x-8050 with a decent length original bracelet (the photo in the listing shows that it will comfortably fit an 18cm wrist, but note also that there is one more step to go on the clasp).

As is evident from the photos, the case is in pretty good condition with crisp caselines and lugs, although clearly it has had some gentle polishing at some point in its life.

If the scratch on the crystal is enough to put you off, don’t despair, and read on!

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The first Grand Seiko with printed logo dial

I’m sure readers will remember this one from a couple of weeks ago (link above - it’s in the same newsletter as the other relisted watch this week) when remarkably three examples of the print logo first Grand Seiko turned up at once.

Last time around the seller canceled the auction after it closed, with the highest bid being 281,000 Yen. I guess we will just have to see if he accepts the inevitability of a pretty low price second time around. given the watch’s condition.

It is still a print logo dial first Grand Seiko though…

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Grand seiko 4420-9000 late dial

It was 50:50 as to whether or not to include this listing. Underneath that scratched up crystal, the dial has a few obvious flaws, the case has seen better days (particularly that lower right lug), and the watch has the later 45GS crown.

But pretty much every watch listed in an open auction on Yahoo finds a loving home, and I’m sure someone will be happy to win this one. Do remember though that examples of the later dial 44GS turn up pretty much every week, so no harm in holding out for a better one.

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Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA blue dial

This is an interesting one, and one that I hope will stimulate a discussion in the comments below.

Obviously a highly sought after reference, looks to be in great condition with a lovely clean dial and very crisp case, and it has that original crystal.

Unfortunately…

We have discussed around these parts before about how for some reason the original crystals on the 6186-8000 VFA’s are very prone to chipping and scratching, and sadly the crystal on the watch here has had some pretty significant damage.

The question is, should you win this one (and it wouldn’t surprise me if someone reading this does!), are you going to drop me an email to request one of my modern sapphire recreations, or would you be happy to live with the original?

First though, you’re going to need to get it up and running. From the description, it sounds like something seriously awry with the movement, but this isn’t the first time we’ve seen a “project” example of this reference around these parts, and from what I remember, that last one turned out rather nicely in the end.

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Grand Seiko 6145-8050 blue dial

The seller lists this one as “dead stock”, but I’m not so sure that’s entirely accurate. Generally the watch looks to be in superb condition, and unless there is someone in Japan restoring cases to the quality of our friend in Poland, it’s probably fair to assume that the case has never been polished.

I’m just a little suspicious of a watch that someone has gone to the the trouble of presenting so well (yes, that is the correct price ticket), and describes as “dead stock”, yet the bracelet is (may be?) missing some links.

I know that Jacky will confirm in the comments within the first few minutes of my hitting the publish button whether or not it is a full bracelet, but it’s rather odd that the seller lists it as only fitting up to a 17.5cm wrist. As we saw from the earlier listing of the green dial 6146-8050 (which has the bracelet attached to the same hole in in the clasp that we see here), that one would easily fit an 18cm wrist.

Regardless, it looks absolutely fabulous, and it’s hardly surprising that bidding has already got to well over 200,000 Yen even before the weekend starts (the auction closes - as so many do - on Sunday evening).

Whether the inner box is correct is up for debate, but for an example of this reference in this condition, I don’t believe that any perceived value in the box will materially affect the closing price.

One to watch for sure. Jacky? Let us know about the bracelet!

There is another listing for this same reference this week which you can see here, but it is in “somewhat poorer” condition!

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It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like love it

Citizen Glorious Citizen gold filled case

It might be considered a little odd that the seller has listed this in the Grand Seiko category, but I think he’s done it deliberately, because this is certainly one of those vintage Citizens that collectors of vintage Grand Seiko such as your good selves might want to seriously consider, and would probably otherwise have missed.

The Glorious Citizens were the top of the range mechanical Citizens, clearly taking aim at the Grand Seiko VFA’s, but falling just a little short with regards their chronometric performance - they were rated to -2/+3 seconds per day. They don’t come up for sale often (this is the first one I can remember in months), and whilst the number of collectors looking out for an example is quite low, the supply volume is even lower, ensuring strong prices, and I suspect demand will only increase as more people get to find out about them.

As one might expect for a watch with a filled gold case, there is quite a bit of softening of the caselines and edges, particularly around the lugs. The dial looks to be in great condition except for some minor damage around the date window.

I absolutely love these (I have a steel cased example), and anticipate a lot of interest in this one.

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Owen Shaw

Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial

Once again, it’s an example of a faked 43999 SD dial from our usual bête noire that has the most bids of any of his listings, and once again, I remind you that this won’t be his only dodgy listing of the week. Lots more wrong here other than just the dial of course, but that’s enough on its own to simply walk away.

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Grand seiko 4420-9000 early dial

I’ve mentioned on numerous occasions how it seems that examples of the early dial variant of “the” 44GS that turn up on Yahoo almost invariably seem to have issues, and this one doesn’t buck that trend.

The problems with the dial are pretty evident, but I’ve seen a lot worse than this one, and I’m sure there are plenty of people out there would would be perfectly happy to accept a little “wabi sabi” on the dial in exchange for the inevitable drop in value that accompanies it.

The crack in the bezel however is perhaps more of a concern, as is the incorrect (King Seiko) crown.

Were it not for those two aspects, this one probably would have made the “good guys” section this week.

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Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA

Well, I did promise you a brace of VFA’s this week, and here’s the second one.

What’s it doing down here, I hear you ask? It’s all about the dial.

Frustratingly this is from the seller who only ever provides four photos, so we don’t have a lot to go on here, but from this angle I’m pretty much certain that we should be able to see the dial code, yet it’s completely blank down there. Also, the 15 minute tick is missing.

Now, on the 6185-8020/1 date version of this “Kubrick” VFA, I’ve seen enough examples with and without the tick to have to assume that on that reference it can go either way, but this is the first time I can recall seeing a missing tick on the 6186.

From the low resolution image provided, I can’t say for certain one way or another whether the dial has been completely redone, but it does look dodgy to me. Here’s a legit one if you want to do a comparison for yourself of the “Automatic” “VFA” and Suwa logo print -

(Gosh what a wonderful example of the reference that one was. If I recall correctly that was also the one that was running at 0spd in 4 positions, and + (or was it -?) 2spd in the remaining two positions)

Also of course, the dial looks to be completely matte, and not sunburst, but that could just be the lighting - with soft lighting you can easily completely kill any evidence of a sunburst dial finish.

Let me know what you think about this one in the comments.

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The first Grand Seiko in stainless steel case

*sigh*

“He” is back with “it” again.

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Redone coloured dial summary

I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.

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