Why don't you wait until you're asked?

Why don't you ask me?

Introduction

The purpose of this newsletter is to provide guidance on which vintage Grand Seiko auctions on Yahoo Japan might be of interest to collectors. I also detail those “dodgy” listings that you need to avoid.

What you will notice is that this isn’t just a simple list of auction listings - in discussing the merits (and demerits) of the listings I often branch off into a bit of background that I hope will be useful in helping you to learn some of the nuances of collecting vintage Grand Seiko.

For those paid subscribers who are reading one of these newsletters for the first time, you can access the archive of all the previous newsletters on the Substack website (or the iPhone and Android apps).

Going forward, I will be unlocking these newsletters a week after sending them out to paid subscribers. The main benefit is of course alerting paid subs to the auctions that they might be interested in bidding on (and avoiding), but I feel the educational value post-close of the auctions is only fair to share to all.

Note - next week…

I’m very proud of the fact that since starting this newsletter for paid subscribers, I have not missed a single week. Unfortunately, next week I will be traveling and have a very tight schedule. It is likely that I will not be able to find the time to write this newsletter.

If this is the case, I will send out a very brief newsletter to confirm, and will also extend everyone’s subscriptions for one week, so that you won’t be out of pocket.

Important note for UK and EEA subscribers -

Yahoo Japan is now actively blocking connections from the UK and the European Economic Area due to the prohibitive costs of adhering to the GDPR regulations for a relatively small number of users.

To get around this for the purposes of this newsletter, links to the auctions detailed will be provided through one of the Japanese proxy companies - FromJapan.

Whilst I have been a customer of FromJapan for many years, I do not receive any benefits from using these links.

As is the norm now, I will commence with the good guys.

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James Bond

Grand Seiko 4420-9000

It’s always nice to see an early Diashock dialed 44GS that someone hasn’t attempted to recondition.

As will be obvious from the photos, this is a very well worn watch indeed, but at least it is “honest”. There are too many dings and scratches on the case to call out them all, but do take particular note of that pretty heavy dent on the bezel just below the crown, and the bracelet will almost certainly have left some unsightly - and possibly deep - scrapes on the underside of the lugs.

Dial wise, we cold do with some better photos, but the most obvious thing to highlight is the staining around the end of the dial code that extends to almost the 25 minute marker. Of course you will be wanting a replacement crystal, but fortunately NOS original parts are not difficult to source.

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Grand Seiko 6245-9001

As I mentioned last week, it’s typically the earlier 624x-9000’s with their lion medallioned case backs that are more desirable to the discerning collector, but from all other angles other than from behind, there’s no difference between the -9000’s and the -9001’s.

62GS’s often turn up with heavily polished or refinished cases, which completely ruins the entire point of these references for me. Here we see one that mercifully has survived the last 56 years without any unwanted “attention”, retaining its original sharply defined caselines and lugs.

As is so common on these, the dial looks to be in pretty much immaculate condition - quite why it is the dials on the 62GS seem to age better than almost any other vintage GS dial I do not know - although as with the 44GS above, you will probably want to source a replacement crystal. The part number you will be after is 320T01AN.

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Grand Seiko 6146-8020

Whilst I don’t blame the seller for wanting to show off the fact this watch comes with its correct inner and outer boxes, it would have been nice to have had a few that at least gave prospective bidders some insight into the condition of the actual watch!

I suspect that this auction will do very well - especially considering that original bracelet is good enough for an 18.5cm wrist - but it is a pretty risky buy. There are redialed examples of these out there (I fell for one many years ago), and the cases are often found having been repolished or reconditioned.

But as they say, fortune favours the brave, and one would hope that someone who has gone to the trouble of keeping the original boxes in great condition, along with the original swing tags, has also looked after the watch itself.

An opportune moment to mention that I really do appreciate it when - as is happening pretty much weekly these days - people contact me to say they bought one of the watches recommended in these newsletters, and share the photos of it when it arrives. If you do go for this and win it, please do let me know how it turns out!

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Grand Seiko 43999 AD dial

Now here is a well presented watch, with a great set of photos that leave nothing to the imagination.

I get a sense that more people are starting to pay attention to 57GS references of late. No hard data to back that up, but based on exposure of the series on social media, it certainly feels like interest has had quite a significant uptick over the last year or so.

There is no doubting the SD dialed variant of the 43999 is - and will always remain - the most covetable of the steel cased references, but the AD dialed one seen here certainly comes a close second.

My ‘primer’ on the 57GS series is still a long way off I’m afraid, but I have gathered more than enough data already to be able to state with 100% confidence that there is nothing wrong with a 43999 cased 43999 AD dialed watch dating from January 1965 with a 5722A movement - this watch was almost certainly “born this way”, and there is nothing suspicious about the apparent case and dial vs movement mismatch.

The case on this one looks excellent - certainly the sharpest I can recall seeing for quite some time. Whilst I’m 100% confident about the originality of the watch, I can’t state to the same level of confidence - based on the photos - that it’s not been worked on. But if it has been, it’s been done very, very well indeed. Assuming those marks on the top left of the caseback are fingerprints and not scratches, the condition of the caseback would seem to support the originality of the condition of the case.

Dial-wise, nothing to point out really - it’s superb.

Personally I’m leaning towards the case condition being legitimate and not reworked, and if there are just a handful of people out there who would agree with my sentiment, I anticipate there being quite the fight for this one. I will certainly be keeping a close eye on it.

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Grand Seiko 5646-7030

Here’s a reference that more and more people are waking up to, and that has been featured in these newsletters quite often.

Not the greatest of presentations - this is from that huge account that only ever provides four photos of a watch (I guess we can forgive them for that, given that this week they have close to 2,000 watches listed) - which means there is some risk here, but the dial looks OK despite the exposure completely washing out the texture.

This seller is generally very conservative with their own rankings however, so with them giving this a “4 - Good product with some damage and dirt”, hopefully whoever wins this one won’t be disappointed when it arrives.

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Grand Seiko 4520-7000

From the same seller - and so the same lack of photos - is this very good looking example of the white dialed 4520-7000.

Note that this seller also has a blue-dialed 4522-7000 listed this week, but I didn’t highlight that one because I felt that it wasn’t possible to discern the condition of the case from the provided photos.

Here there is no such worry though, with the case looking very good indeed, with the brushing of the upper surface of the mid section of the flanks clearly in evidence.

Given this one also has what from memory is one of the nicest dials I’ve seen in a while, and that it is the much more desirable no-date 4520 version, I expect there will be a lot of interest in this one.

And is that a hint of the caseback sticker still intact?

Good luck to anyone who has been holding out for one this good - you’ll almost certainly be fighting me for it :)

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Grand Seiko 6156-8010

Here’s a super example of the 6156-8010 “Special”, notable not just for its movement - originally rated to +/-3 seconds per day, and, unlike the 6146, with quickset bilingual day and date - but also its hardened steel case and faceted sapphire crystal.

The benefits of that case material are obvious when you take a look at the second provided photo, that I’ll zoom in on a little bit here -

Just check out those lugs. Amazing.

This is certainly the best example of this reference to turn up in a while, and I’m sure there will be a lot of interest in it.

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Grand Seiko 5646-7010

Once again we just have four photos to go on, but nothing negative jumps out of any of them.

If you’re new to collecting vintage Grand Seiko and are looking for an ideal piece to start off your collection you could do a lot worse than an example of this reference.

The 5646-7010 is by far the most common vintage Grand Seiko you will find - there is a seemingly almost unending supply of them out there, and they don’t come much cleaner than this one.

There is just one negative aspect to be aware of - the seller ranks this as a “junk” product, which almost certainly means the day-date quickset mechanism will be broken and will need servicing. For some bizarre reason, I am rarely able to find an auction for the required part when I sit down to write these newsletters, but have recollections of seeing listings for it multiple times in the week! If you do ever need to find the part, drop me an email and I’ll keep an eye out for you and let you know when one turns up.

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Grand Seiko 5646-7030

Oh - another one!

The way I approach these newsletters is to rank the Grand Seiko auctions in descending order of bids, and then just write up a listing when I feel it worth mentioning in either the good or bad categories.

The good news is that in this listing, the same seller that has the one featured earlier has photographed it a little better, and so we can better assess the condition of the dial and case - both of which look to be very good.

Based on the photos, I’d say this listing looks to be the better purchase than the one featured earlier, although whereas the first one was ranked a 4, this one is just 1 (“junk”).

The auctions are scheduled to close within just 48 seconds of one another (although both will undoubtedly be extended multiple times), so it will be very interesting to follow along!

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Grand Seiko 6145-8000 cross dial

Here’s another listing this week that I’m personally very interested in getting for myself.

Although it had a very high 148,000 Yen minimum bid price, multiple bidders have already entered the fray, and the reason is twofold.

Firstly, the watch - which looks to be in very good condition - comes with its original inner box and what is almost certainly the correct certificate (although the seller only shows us the first three digits of the certificate number).

Secondly, the watch is on “that” bracelet.

The Oyster style bracelet for the 614x-8000 is very rarely seen, and when good examples turn up they can sell for in excess of $1,000 on their own. Whilst there is some debate over whether all the ones that turn up are genuine (some have end-links stamped 6145/46-800, some seem not to), this one does look - faintly - as though it has the stamps -

Additionally., the final photo in this listing shows two spare links. Whilst the seller doesn’t state what wrist size the bracelet will fit without those links, one would hope that with them, the bracelet will be back to its original full length.

This is a very attractive auction indeed, and if the seller is able to confirm the bracelet end-link stamps and the certificate number (I have asked FromJapan to ask both those questions, so hopefully answers will be provided on the listing itself later today), then it’s only going to increase the desirability.

“Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more…”

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Grand Seiko 4420-9000

Topping and all-but-tailing this week’s extensive list of recommended listings with examples of the 44GS, with the later dialed variant presented here.

A bit risky this one -

Once again we have an auction where the seller could have put more effort into the presentation of the watch, but from what is visible in the images, everything looks to be pretty positive as far as the case and dial are concerned, with the former looking pretty sharp, and no obvious blemishes on the latter.

Also, the seller very clearly states that the watch doesn’t run - make sure to always read the descriptions carefully with these auctions!

But the state of the dial and case make this a very tempting project, if you have a watchmaker up for the task, and are prepared to put some effort into finding any required spare parts!

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Grand Seiko 5646-7005

Here’s one we’ve seen before - just two weeks ago in fact, when it sold for 634,000 Yen. However, that winning bid was cancelled.

There can be a number of reasons behind a cancelled bid. Most commonly, it is either because the winning bidder received the watch and then negotiated to return it, or because the seller was shilling their own auction and got caught out.

Given the company that is listing this though, we can definitely rule out the second of those reasons.

It’s been two weeks since the original auction closed - plenty of time for the winner to receive the watch, return it, and for it to be listed again. Possibly the winning bidder didn’t realise that the bracelet is not the original Grand Seiko one until he received the watch, although this was made very clear in the original listing (and of course commented on in my write-up).

Regardless of the bracelet being third party, I still feel it is an extremely good match for the watch (as mentioned before, arguably even better fitting than the original!), and suspect that we will see a similar price achieved again with this relisting.

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It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it

Grand Seiko SBGW033

Quite timely that one of these should turn up in an auction so soon after my primer on the first Grand Seiko recreations.

Grand Seiko "First" recreations - a primer for collectors

The auction started at 500,000 Yen, and there is probably quite a long way to go yet. It’s pretty rare for one of these to come up in an open auction, so it will be interesting to follow, not least because this one is basically in NOS condition.

The seller does seem a bit rude though!

“Moreover, the bid of the newer one and the foreigner is refused.

Only Japanese are allowed to bid on this item.

Questions from such people are unacceptable.”

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A Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA at Sweetroad

Sweetroad have been doing pretty well with their VFA listings of late (all of which I think I have featured in these newsletters), and each time they get one the price goes up.

I highly recommend this one, which looks to be in top condition, and is complete with its original crystal.

I doubt it will hang around for long, and the longer one puts off getting a VFA, the more expensive they seem to get.

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Franz Sanchez

Grand Seiko 4420-9000

This week’s newsletter leads with an “honest” 44GS in the good guys’ section, so I guess it was inevitable that the baddies would turn up with one of these abominations.

Right now there are 109 bids on the honest one, and 84 on this.

I do encourage you to click through on both links so that you can compare the two watches closely for yourselves. Just make sure you don’t mess up and put a bid in for this one!

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The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

OK I’m putting this one in here out of an abundance of caution.

It really does take an extraordinary amount of effort to have a listing of an example of the first Grand Seiko where the watch looks to be in very good condition, but the resolution of the photos is just too low to enable 100% confirmation as to whether or not the dial has been “redone”. But, that’s exactly what we have in this listing.

I suspect this auction will do very well, but it really is a coin toss as to whether or not the winner gets what (s)he is hoping for.

The one thing that looks just a little off to me in these very low resolution images is the ‘m’ in Chronometer, the base of which looks to be every so slightly above the rest of the letters. This is a tell for one of the redone dials.

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Grand Seiko 5722-9991

He’ll keep on listing them for as long as people keep on buying them.

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The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

Now here’s a redone dial print that would very easily be identifiable even if it was only shown at the same magnification and resolution as the one featured earlier.

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Grand Seiko 6145-9000

There’s a 6145-9001 in the Bond section that makes an interesting case comparison to this one - note how much sharper the definition of the lugs are in the -9001 compared to what you see here.

This one isn’t too bad to be honest - you see them a lot softer than this - and without the comparison to hand, one might thing this one was good enough. But when you’ve seen as many of these as I have, you tend to just walk on by when you see a case like this one.

But that’s not why it’s in this section.

The reason why this is with the baddies is because of the date of the watch. With a serial number commencing 5N indicating production in November 1965, for me this is just too early for a Grand Seiko 62GS. I suspect - but without seeing a date stamp on the rear of the dial, cannot say for certain - that this started life as a Seikomatic Chronometer and had a dial swap at some point.

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Fake “Imperial” VFA

You really would have thought that buy now this guy would have given up with his nonsense, but it would appear that this watch has some sort of boomerang capability that means however many times his lists it and it seems to sell, it just keeps coming back.

I’ve lost count now as to how many times this has been listed - and have mentioned this before - but for those who are relatively new to this newsletter, here’s just one example where it was listed and “sold” for 512,000 Yen back in September last year -

Without question this is the exact same watch - note the tiny mark on the dial next to the 5 o’clock marker.

Also note that despite the seller’s protestations that “I haven't opened the back cover to check it after purchase, so I don't know what kind of machine is inside. (As far as the materials are concerned, the image of the 45VFA specification has been confirmed.)”, he clearly has.

Here’s the caseback from the September auction -

- and here it is from this week’s -

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Grand Seiko 5645-7005

It’s very rare for this seller to get caught out offering a watch with a redone dial, but given the volume they shift, it’s not surprising it happens once in a while.

Clear redial here - avoid!

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Redone coloured dial summary

As usual, I close (well, almost…) with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, and several listings typically appear every week.

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One more thing…

Ok so this has turned into a bit of a monster of a newsletter - just done a quick count and we’re in excess of 3,500 words already. Hopefully that will be some consolation if I can’t find the time to get one out next week!

But I couldn’t hit the publish button without mentioning “that thing” that happened this week.

Despite being listed in a very obscure category, it didn’t take long for the word to get out about this -

The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial in platinum

Of course the platinum cased first Grand Seiko needs no introduction.

This was going to be a very interesting auction, and I was primed and ready to bid. One slight issue - the auction was timed to close tonight (Friday) Japan time.

As will be evident from this week’s newsletter (and also from many listings that I have featured in past ones), I very often detail watches here that I am personally interested in acquiring. This obviously can work against me in two different ways - either I can end up paying more for the watch than I would otherwise have done, because someone who saw the watch because of my featuring it ends up being the underbidder; or, I end up not getting the watch because someone outbids me.

It may seem crazy for me to be highlighting to a wide, and growing, community the very pieces that I am interested in getting - I’m not aware of anyone else in this “business” who is stupid enough to do this - but I think there are some longer term, more qualitative, benefits that I probably don’t need to go into.

However.

There will be occasions when something turns up that I choose not to share here, and this listing would have been one of those. This newsletter is intended to provide you insight into a selection of the auction listings that I feel are worth your attention. There are too many listings every week for me to detail everything worth bidding on, and I focus on what I consider to be the best and most interesting pieces.

But yes, there will be the odd occasion when I don’t highlight something because I really, really don’t want to increase the competition for it. I think that in the time that I’ve been publishing these, I have only ever held back on perhaps two or three listings.

In this particular instance, the auction was cancelled after just a couple of days. I suspect from his updates that the seller was genuinely overwhelmed by the attention the auction was getting, and the rapidly increasing bids (which had a long, long way still to go of course).

From the description, it was clearly a watch that he had recently inherited from his father, and goodness only knows what emotions were behind his decision to cancel the auction. Maybe he ended up selling it to the shop that had already made him an offer, maybe he simply wants more time to consider what to do with it. Clearly before the auction he had no idea of just how desirable and valuable his dearly departed father’s watch was.

Personally, I hope that now he appreciates just how special the watch is - and how important it must have been to his father - he holds onto it himself. Maybe 50 or 60 years from now, he will be bequeathing it to one of his children.

Or maybe we’ll see it offered for sale again somewhere soon. Just don’t count on me to let you know about it if it does!

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