You talkin' to me?
Introduction
This week’s newsletter comes to you from New York, where I am visiting to hand over in person that rather lovely 4580-7010 VFA that I listed at the end of last year, to a watch collector relatively new to vintage Grand Seiko, but whom I rather suspect will have a world class collection in the future.
And whilst here, it would have been rude not to help the local economy by spending some of the dollars gained from that sale on an Apple Vision Pro (I have been involved in the VR/AR space for more than a decade now, and am extremely excited for the potential of the device), and witnessing an astonishing recital of the Chopin Etudes by Korean pianist Yunchan Lim at Carnegie Hall.
Probably not many people around who have been in attendance at live recitals by both Vladimir Horowitz and Yunchan Lim, but yours truly is one of them.
Regarding the Vision Pro by the way, it is going to make for a really interesting device with which to both record, and view, handheld watch reviews using “Spatial Video”. When I get back home, I’ll record a couple of demos, although you’re going to need a Vision Pro to appreciate them fully!
But enough about my brief stateside visit, let’s take a look at this week’s auctions on Yahoo Japan.
Travis Bickle
Grand Seiko 5646-7010 blue dial
The blue dialed 564x-7010 is one of those references that you don’t quite appreciate how difficult it is to find a good one until you go hunting for it.
One thing that is very common with these is that the dial does develop a slightly textured patina over time, which is evident on the example listed here, and nothing to be concerned about.
What might not be so obvious is that this watch - like all the watches that this seller offers - has had its case refinished.
I deliberately use the term “refinished” rather than “repolished”, because the latter is more generally used in a pejorative sense when it comes to discussing cases on watches. “Repolishing” will typically imply that the original case features have been basically ruined - with brushed finishes buffed away completely, and the sharp caselines that vintage Grand Seikos are so famous for softened up beyond all recognition (just look at the cases on the watches from “our usual suspect” for examples of this).
I used the term “refinished” to describe a watch whose case has been - for want of a better description - “attended to”, but in a way that is sympathetic to the original case features, and respecting the design elements of the watch.
At the end of the day, it’s down to the individual collector as to just what they will put up with in this area. Clearly the commercial success of the guy who sells the dodgily re-dialed and (in my view) horrendously repolished cased listings shows that there is a healthy market out there even for his pieces.
When “refinishing” is done to the level of quality that someone like Kamil (the Polish lapinist) executes, there is such a demand for the work that you typically have to wait for a year for him to get through his backlog before your watch hits his bench. And it’s worth the wait.
This seller’s efforts - whilst not remotely in the same league as Kamil’s - are certainly good enough to result in a watch that you can wear with some degree of pride in its appearance, and quite honestly would fool pretty much everyone into believing that the watch case was actually untouched.
I don’t feature his listings very often, but when something as good looking - and as (at least relative to the white and silver dialed variants) rare as this reference turns up, I think it’s worth highlighting.
The other benefit that you get if you do decide to purchase from this seller is that his watches are invariably fully serviced prior to being offered (no worrying about the quickset day/date mechanism on this one).
Grand Seiko 1964-0010
Here’s the platinum plated stainless steel cased variant (“PMP” as seen on the caseback) of the ladies 1964-0010 of which we saw a cap gold example - in very similar condition - last week.
This one though is one level up from the cap gold, in that it retains much of its original caseback protection sticker, thus earning it the description - in the eyes of the seller at least - “dead stock”.
Whilst it would be fair to use that term with regards the watch head, I’m not so sure that the strap or buckle are original. Having said that though, as we found out last week, one never knows when a new surprise is lurking round the corner when it comes to vintage Grand Seiko buckles. Suffice to say, this buckle isn’t pictured in any of the official publications of the era.
I was very happy to learn that the cap gold 1964-0010 from last week’s newsletter went to someone here, this one is very deserving of a similar loving home, so let’s see where it ends up!
Grand Seiko 5646-7010 cap gold
The cap gold 5646-7010 makes for a super “entry level” piece for collectors dipping their toes - or should that be wrists - into the world of vintage Grand Seiko. It’s also one of those references where it is absolutely essential to find one that has not had its case repolished.
The case features a vertical brushing on the flanks, the presence (or lack thereof) of which is in my mind essential if you are considering picking one up.
Fortunately as we can see on this rather lovely example, the original finish is all present and correct.
The dial on this one has also survived the 53+ years of its life in superb condition, which makes this a great example for anyone interested in the reference.
As per usual with the 56GS series, always check the description to see if the seller explicitly calls out the day/date mechanism as working correctly. Here, although they state “it is currently a working product”, there is nothing mentioned regarding that functionality, so do work on the assumption that it could well need addressing at a service.
6145/6 800 bracelet for the 614x-8000
This is always a tough one to call because, as highlighted in Anthony Kable’s great article on the vintage Grand Seiko bracelets, we do know that this bracelet exists with the endlinks stamped with its catalogue code.
Ideally, this is how you’d want to find one of these, but there have been a sufficient number of examples turn up that don’t have those stamps (and from reputable sources) to make some collectors happy to overlook the lack of the markings and accept these as the genuine article as well.
It’s a very highly sought after bracelet, and doesn’t turn up often, so I suspect that this one will do rather well.
XAB271 bracelet for the 615x-8000
This one comes from the same seller as the blue dialed 56GS, so you can be sure that - as with his watch cases - the bracelet has had some work done on it. But it looks great, and no doubt will do very well, as there are plenty of people out there with the “Specials” who are after this one (although do be aware that this bracelet was never officially listed for the 6156-8010, only the 6155-8000 and 6156-8000).
18K buckle for the 614x-8000, 6145-8030, and early examples of the 452x-8010
Not much to say about this one really, other than that if you are missing the correct buckle for one of the watches listed in the subtitle, they don’t turn up very often!
Three VFA’s currently available at dealers in Japan
There are some rather interesting VFA’s out there at the moment that may well be of interest that I thought were worth a quick summary, so let’s take a look!
Grand Seiko 6185-8020 VFA at Kyotoya
It certainly feels that demand for the top-level vintage Grand Seikos, such as the VFA’s, is accelerating of late, with an increasing number of collectors who previously would have only been interested in vintage watches from the Swiss brands taking a long and considered look in an eastward direction.
Should this turn out to be a genuine trend, then I suspect at some point we could well hit a tipping point for references such as this one, where there simply will be nowhere near enough “out there” to be able to satisfy demand.
I won’t go into the history of the VFA’s here (that has been well covered elsewhere on this Substack), but the early “stealth” 6185-8020 with that wonderful applied Suwa logo is undoubtedly the most desirable of the VFA’s with the “Kubrick” (nicknamed by yours truly for its hour markers resemblance to the monoliths from 2001: A Space Odyssey) style dial.
As is par for the course with Kyotoya’s listings, there are a large number of detailed photographs provided - with any issues present explicitly called out - so you know exactly what you are getting.
Certainly I have seen better examples of this reference over the years, but it is rare enough that even with those highlighted dial, crystal and case issues (the case here has definitely been gently repolished at some point in its life), it is still worth a mention.
The asking price of 2M yen is certainly on the high side when you look at historical sales of this reference, but who knows - we might look back on this in a few years and view it as a bargain.
Grand Seiko 6186-8000 VFA at Alpha Omega
This is a very nice example of a 6186-8000, and certainly reflected in the asking price of 2.2M Yen which I rather suspect someone will go for in time.
Not least because, for those purists out there (mentioning no names, because that wouldn’t be fair to Scott), it has…
… it’s original crystal, which - if you take a look through the photos provided - is remarkably well preserved.
The only slight negative worth highlighting is some light staining on the dial, clearly visible in the photo below -
Quite honestly, if it weren’t for those stains, I probably would have purchased this one myself and stuck it in the safe for a couple of years, but I instead broke the bank and purchased another VFA that they listed at the same time as this one (because if they do - as I suspect they will - sell this one for the asking price, the price differential between it and the one I picked up was way, way too low).
Grand Seiko 6185-8010 at The Tokei Club
This one is listed as “price on application”, which frankly does not surprise me. There isn’t really a functioning market for pieces as rare and desirable as this one - especially when they are in as fantastic condition as we see here.
It’s not really down to what the asking price is now, more a case of “if you pass up on this opportunity, how long will you have to wait for another, and when one does turn up, what do you reckon the asking price might be then?”.
Is it as good as the example I sold last year that has the “VFA” print on the dial? No, but it is darn close, and certainly ranks up there in the top three or four examples of this reference that I’ve ever seen.
I rather suspect that The Tokei Club will be fielding quite a few enquiries on this one…
Matthew “Sport” Higgins
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
Redone dial. Avoid.
Grand Seiko 5645-7010 cap gold
Normally I wouldn’t bother to include a listing such as this one, but this week it does make for a useful comparison to the great example listed earlier.
Despite the watch clearly looking rather old and weathered, at some point in its life it did have a substantial repolishing, since there is no sign whatsoever of the original brushed finish to the flanks
From the condition of the case, it certainly doesn’t look as though that repolishing was done recently!
Grand Seiko 4520-7000
It’s arguably a very attractive look, but the dial here has been completely redone.
Redone coloured dial summary
I close with the usual copy/pasted reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment”, so be careful out there.
$70.000 for this VFA sounds like a crazy price.
6186 8000
This is how you steal the ball from Swiss biased collections. Irresistible if you’ve waded through untold muck to get to this Japanese watch