But I'm telling you, and I'm telling everybody at this table that that's a shark!
And I know what a shark looks like, because I've seen one up close.
Introduction
This week’s newsletter comes to you via tethering, since my fiber connection at home has been down for two and a half days. Engineer should hopefully be turning up in about an hour though, so fingers crossed he can trace the cable back and find out where it got broken (probably either by a squirrel having a nibble at it, or maybe someone reversing a truck and taking the wire down!).
A little worried that I may have exhausted my fast bandwidth on the phone, as every now and then the connection is dropping to 3G. Do you remember just how fast 3G seemed when it first came out? Well, it ain’t seeming so fast nowadays, and it is turning into a real slog to get this newsletter written and sent out!
Hopefully this week won’t be considered a “zedfest” as Yahoo Japan Auctions has some cracking examples of some of the most collectible references for your consideration :) There’s a first, a superb SD dialed 43999, a gorgeous looking 4520-8000, and a VFA, so hopefully nobody will fall asleep reading this week’s newsletter!
Those who keep an independent eye on the listings will probably note a glaring admission from this week’s recommended lots, but the reason for that is not because I’m extremely keen to acquire it for myself (although I am), but because the seller has asked me not to feature his listings in the newsletters.
A little odd, perhaps, but I respect his wishes.
Martin Brody
Grand Seiko 4520-8000
Up first this week is a lovely looking example of one of the most highly sought after vintage Grand Seiko references - the 4520-8000.
Purists however can skip past this one, because the case has been refinished (albeit very well). The clue is in shot showing the flank side on, where you can see that the edge between the upper and lower portion of the case is consistently sharp all the way along -
What you are getting however is a very wearable and recently serviced (November 2023) beautiful example of the reference.
Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial
For those who have been waiting for a lovely and original SD dialed 43999 to turn up, your patience may about to pay off.
Coming from one of the more reputable sellers on Yahoo Japan is this super example of the highly coveted reference that I suspect will get a lot of action in the closing hour of the auction.
Dating from October 1963, every aspect of this 43999 SD checks out - movement serial number commences with 30, and it even has the correct crown.
The case looks to be in great condition with super definition on those beveled lugs, and would appear to only have succomb to some gentle polishing over the years.
There is just one caveat however, and that is the dial. If you look closely, you will see that the print has lightly “bled” somewhat. This is pretty common on these dials, but those holding out for the ultimate example of the reference will probably nod their heads slowly out of respect for a fine example, but let it pass and wait for the true grail-level 43999 SD (which will go for many multiples of whatever this lands at).
The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial
It’s very rare to see an example of the first Grand Seiko with a dedication engraved on the back, but that’s what we are presented with here.
With the usual caveat for this seller that we only have four photos to go on, this looks to be a very nice example of the reference. The case is showing its age with a few minor skirmish scars, but what you get in return for the dings and scratches are very well defined lugs because seemingly little attempt has been made to polish them out.
There is some light degradation of the dial at the periphery just beyond the 7 o’clock index, but the more pertinent issue are the small stains that are visible (when I refer to dials on the first Grand Seiko being “spotted”, this is not what I am talking about!) -
No dial is perfect, but if you can accept those stains then this is certainly one of the better examples of the first Grand Seiko that you can expect to come across - it even has its correct original crown!
XQB070 bracelet for the Grand Seiko 564x-7010
You would think that by now I would have committed to memory the different bracelet codes and the watches they pair up with, but nope - I have to resort to firing up Anthony Kable’s superb guide to the Vintage Grand Seiko Bracelets every time one turns up!
At 15cm (without the watch remember) I don’t think this has all its original links, but it should be long enough to cater to most wrists. There is one slightly dodgy looking link in the photos that one can only hope doesn’t render the whole bracelet unsafe to wear, so caveat emptor.
Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA
It’s good to see another of the most common VFA references turn up in an open auction on Yahoo, but don’t forget there are quite a few out there with dealers (I count four) ranging in price from 1.1M Yen all the way up to 2.5M should you wish to acquire one somewhat more cautiously.
The photos in the listing would ideally be a little more detailed - especially on the dial - but I think there is just about enough there to go on. The dial looks clean - these dials can have a tendency to degrade at the periphery, but I can’t see any sign of that. The clearly shows that the watch has been worn extensively, and is liberally swathed in minor scratches, examples of which can be seen here -
This is a watch you can wear and enjoy with abandon, and not worry about putting a scratch on it because you probably wouldn’t even notice any new ones.
The above is not intended as a criticism, nor to put people off bidding on the piece - I would say it has aged very gracefully, and there is no shame in that whatsoever.
The seller reports that the watch is seemingly functioning correctly, with all the crown activities ticked off. There is a comment about “rusty areas inside the movement” which sounds rather worrying, but I suspect (and sincerely hope) it is just referring to the surface oxidation on the rotor, which is very common on these and typically doesn’t seem to negatively impact the movement in any way.
The crystal has a few chips and scratches, but nothing so significant as to be detrimental to viewing that wonderful dial. Were I to own this one, I’d certainly be inclined to keep the crystal as-is and not replace it, since it matches so well the wear and tear on the case.
Bottom line - this is a super VFA for those who are happy for a watch to show its age, and not have to worry about keeping something in pristine condition.
Highly recommended.
My tethering connection is still just about holding up. Shall we take a look at those four listed with dealers? Yeah. Why not!
In descending order of price…
A Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA at Used Tokyo No1
This dealer has a habit of describing watches as “dead stock” when they are nothing of the sort, but on this occasion I think we might be able to give him a pass. Flip the watch over, and you are presented with a caseback showing the remnants of the original protection sticker.
Very rare to see one of these surviving on a VFA, and the profile shot showing the side of the case looks to add just further evidence that this watch may well be deserving of the “dead stock” claim.
The only real challenge here is that you’ve now seen 75% of the provided photos. Quite honestly when the asking price is 2.5M Yen, I’d like to have seen a little more effort put into the presentation, and certainly would not consider purchasing this one without either seeing it in person or at least have many more photos to check it over thoroughly.
Going by the shop details at the bottom of the web page, it looks like this is coming from the same company (or at least, a division of the same parent company) that lists so many watches on Yahoo with just the four images (as seen in the listing for the first Grand Seiko above).
Is 2.5M a fair price for a dead stock/mint 6185-8021? I certainly think so. Would I take the risk and buy this as presented? Nope.
A(nother) Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA at Used Tokyo No1
Coming in at almost 1M Yen cheaper (the watch is priced at 1,590,000) is another example from the same dealer. This time around, we only get three pictures to base our buying decision on - and once again, we see the “dead stock class” headline.
Come on guys - this is pretty ridiculous on multiple fronts!
It looks to be a pretty good example, but who in their right mind is going to pay 1.6M Yen for the most common VFA off the basis of just three photos? Again - is it potentially worth it? Certainly.
Some may well baulk at the price differential between what looks like it could well be a very good example of the reference indeed, and one that is potentially in dead stock condition. 1.6M to 2.5M is a big leap, but one I personally feel is easily justifiable.
Do share your thoughts in the comments!
A Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA at Brand Shop Lips
Priced just a smidge under the previous watch at 1,559,000, and with five (count 'em!) photos is an example that looks at first glance to be in excellent condition, but when you look closer, there are issues that I feel - unlike the previous two examples - make the asking price for this one impossible to justify.
For me, the biggest issue is what some might consider to be a minor one - the missing “5” in the dial code. Other perceived flaws in the dial - most notably those many broken minute track markers - may well be down to flaws in the crystal (without additional photos I would suggest it is impossible to be sure), but here there can be no doubt in my mind that it’s not a crystal flaw that is hiding part of the dial code, the print simply isn’t there.
The other slightly concerning issue - and one that would definitely require checking out in person - is whether or not the case has been polished. One of the photos provided shows papers indicating the watch has been serviced by Grand Seiko in Japan, and they do have a worrying habit of polishing cases (unless explicitly requested not to) when servicing a watch.
Here’s a view of the case flanks. What do you think - untouched? Or polished?
A (final) Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA at Used Tokyo No1
Priced at 1.1M Yen, at least we don’t need more than the four provided photos to walk away from this one right away.
That significant degradation of the dial is all that is required to move swiftly on - and to be honest even at considerably under the asking price, I’d have to think carefully about whether or not this would be worth picking up.
If you were wondering why the 6185-8021 that was listed at Sweetroad for 2,180,000 Yen and featured in the newsletter a couple of weeks isn’t mentioned? It has sold. Don’t say I didn’t warn you that the wider watch collecting community is waking up to our little secret.
Brucette (yeah I had a giggle too, but it’s true!)
Grand Seiko 5645-7010 blue dial
Just to mix things up a bit, I thought we’d kick off the antagonist section this week with an example of one of those many coloured redialed (and oft faceted crystaled) vintage Grand Seikos that I usually just put a reminder about at the end of the newsletter.
The reason being - this one is actually number one on the most-bid vintage Grand Seikos this week, and with just 10 or so hours to go, the bidding is already up to 116,000 Yen.
I guess you can appreciate why these exist - a regular beaten up 564x-7010 might sell for just a couple of hundred bucks. Polish up the case, repaint and reprint the dial, add a cheap aftermarket faceted crystal, and all of a sudden you have a watch that people are prepared to pay multiples of the original value for.
There are no fewer than ten listings for watches like this one with coloured redone dials listed on Yahoo - with bids (there are plenty more examples listed at BiN prices) - as I write this newsletter. It’s clearly a big business for someone!
Grand Seiko 43999 SD dial
Also in the top ten most-bid vintage Grand Seikos is a contribution from “he who shall be ignored”. No surprises there - seems that there is an endless supply of people willing to hand over their hard-earned money for this junk!
And that’s wrap!
Now hurry up please Mr 3BB Engineer. I need my fiber connection back!
Be nice if you could rename the link on the best 21
Why would somebody not want his listing shared? are they afraid of receiving too many offers??