You don't remember me, do you?

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Introduction

Well fortunately I managed to get out of Hong Kong just ahead of the impending arrival of Typhoon Saola - to all my readers who are anxiously awaiting its arrival, stay safe!

Keep an eye out on the Instagram channel for a couple of videos of rather lovely vintage Grand Seikos to come over the next few days - hopefully I’ll get the first one up later today.

This week I guess is certainly well above an average week - there is a rather nice VFA to go into battle for, and one of the most fascinating conundrums to turn up since I started these newsletters, so let’s get right to it.

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Indiana Jones

Grand Seiko 4420-9990

The cap gold version of the 44GS is fairly rare, but it’s also nowhere near as collectible as the steel cased versions, which keeps the price down for all but the very best examples.

For a cap gold case, this one has aged very well, retaining sharp edges between the case facets. The dial is clean, the crown correct, and the seller reports that the watch was serviced last year, and runs well.

If you’re after one of these to add to your collection, you could do a lot worse than this one.

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Grand Seiko 4420-9000 early dial

It’s been quite a wait, but finally an example of the early dialed 4420-9000 - that pretty much everyone is after - turns up that is worthy of a mention.

Clearly it’s not one that you could describe as being even close to mint, but it is better than the vast majority of these that you will come across - perhaps an 80th percentile watch, maybe a little more.

The watch is well presented, which means you should be able to spot pretty much any potential issues. The dial has some small spotting, and the case looks to be in only very mildly polished condition. There are quite a few obvious signs of wear though, so do examine the watch very closely if you are considering getting involved in the bidding.

Perhaps the most concerning areas are the lugs. The bottom right one has some pretty obvious dings, and I’m not entirely sure what has caused this on the upper right one -

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Grand Seiko 4522-7000 blue dial

Although the dial may look a little blotchy here, I’m pretty sure it’s just reflections in the crystal - certainly we can make out the phone camera that was used to take the photos, and maybe that’s a face and black hair as well?!

There is just one further photo provided of the dial side, and I think it’s fair to say that one should give any potential bidders the confidence that the dial is in overall excellent condition.

As for the case, well, the seller describes it as “dead stock”, and nothing in the photos leads me to suspect that isn’t an accurate description. The second photo just provides even more evidence to support the claim, showing a pretty much fully intact caseback protection sticker.

The remarkable “0001” case serial number just adds to the attraction of this piece, although it does of course beg the question - was January 1969 the first month of production for these?

I’ve not done a deep dive on these, so don’t have a database to check up on, but I will pause now to go check 20 examples that have sold over the last few years to see if I can find any earlier ones…

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OK so I kept going up to 30. And none of them are earlier than March 1969.

But there is a rather glaring problem here. It’s not a 4520 movement, rather, it’s the King Seiko 4502. With a GS crown.

So. I guess two possibilities here. The watch was the first one ever produced, but for internal aesthetic review purposes only, and so they simply dropped a 4502 movement and handset; or, someone has gone to the effort to produce a really bizarre Frankenstein.

But here’s the rather obvious thing to point out. Why go to all this effort if you were sat on case number 910001, and not use a “legitimate” 4520 movement and handset? It’s not as if they are hard to come by, and there are plenty of 1968 4520-8000’s from which a movement could be taken.

Unfortunately it would take a lot of time to do the research on all the 452x-7000’s that have sold on Yahoo over the last decade or so (around 700 watches) to discover whether this really is the very first case, but I strongly suspect that it would turn out to be just that.

My gut feel is that this is completely legitimate, and originates from the mothership. If it were to turn out that there are no other examples of cases dated earlier than March 1969, then the case for this being a “mule” put together by Grand Seiko - possibly for design sign-off purposes - back in the day exactly as we see it now becomes very strong indeed.

I wonder how many people will feel the same? The bidding will reveal that, for sure!

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Grand Seiko 6156-8001

It’s always a treat to see a vintage Grand Seiko with its original store guarantee - especially when the Grand Seiko certificate is generic and not tied to the individual watch, as is the case with the “Specials”.

The watch and bracelet both look to be in very good condition, but there are a couple of questions regarding the accompanying accessories.

Firstly, that is not the correct swing tag for a Special - it’s for a 56GS. Secondly, and a little more complicatedly, there is the box. We aren’t shown anything other than the corner of the box as seen in the lead photo. There are two questions here - does the box have Hi Beat 36000 embroidered in it (although the jury is still out on whether that is correct for a late Special such as this one)? And, would this even be the correct box for the watch if it was originally sold on the bracelet?

Whilst the bracelet is the correct one for this reference, without knowing the price paid for the watch, it’s impossible to state whether it was originally sold on the bracelet, or the bracelet was bought separately - both scenarios are possible.

My suspicion here - especially given the incorrect swing tag - is that the seller (or someone in the past) has added the box and swing tag to increase the allure of the entire package. Rather unnecessarily in my view, as the watch, bracelet, correct certificate and store warranty are great as they are.

Highly recommended, but ignore the box and swing tag!

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Grand Seiko 6185-8021 VFA

I’ve no doubt there will be quite a few people after this one, but do consider the dial very carefully before chasing it too far. Note the stains between the 12 and 1 hour markers -

The lack of a tick mark outside the date window is nothing to be concerned about - this dial hasn’t been “redone”, and examples both with and without the marker are plentiful, although I have still to get around to looking into this matter in more depth to try to make some sense out of it.

One aspect of these VFA’s that I personally feel collectors put too much emphasis on is the crystal. Yes, on this one, it looks like the crystal is the original one, but also note how scratched up it is, and how chipped the edge. At the end of the day, how much value one places on an original crystal in this condition is down to the individual, but for myself, if I was buying this one, I’d swap it straight out for a pristine modern sapphire one. I certainly wouldn’t then throw the original crystal away of course, but I would question what the true value of it would be, were one to offer it for sale.

Should you (a paid subscriber) end up winning this watch and would like a replacement sapphire crystal, just send me an email after the watch arrives with a photo of it, and I will be happy to pop one in the post to you.

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The first Grand Seiko with carved logo dial

This is a really great example of a late (no split-12) carved dial first Grand Seiko, with the dial in particular looking to be in superb condition.

Just about the only negative thing about it is that - like so many other early example of this seminal reference - it has lost its caseback medallion. Poor quality modern “reproductions” are available, but if you can overlook the missing medallion, I really would recommend leaving this exactly as is, and don’t bother trying to fill that gap with a modern piece of rubbish.

Not much else to say really - it’s a shame we don’t get to see movement and inside caseback photos to check the serial numbers line up with the exterior features, but there are sufficient images in good resolution (scroll down the description) to make a call on every other aspect of the watch.

IF you can overlook the missing medallion, highly recommended.

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Grand Seiko 4520-7000 white dial

By now I’m sure that almost all regular readers will be well aware that the dial on this reference can patinate in all sorts of different directions.

This one is particularly lovely to my mind, although perhaps that stain at the periphery around the 1 o’clock index would put off some.

Listed by an oft-featured account that only ever provides four photos, there is a bit of risk that there is something unseen that might turn out to be a nasty surprise when the watch arrives, but generally the case looks to be in good condition, with the texture of the brushed flanks still very much in evidence, and a pretty crisp - if slightly knocked about - case all round.

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A trio of 18K gold buckles

One…

Two…

Three…

Don’t worry if you can’t remember which buckle goes with which watch. I can’t either, and I wrote them all up here, and here.

To save you the trouble of looking them up, number one is for the 4520-8010, 4522-8010, 6145-8000, 6146-8000, and 6145-8030…. ; number two is for the Astron and other 18K quartz watches (it’s not for any vintage Grand Seiko, nor is it correct for the Seiko Astronomical Observatory Chronometer); and number three is also for the 4520-8010 and 4522-8010 (I haven’t seen sufficient examples to establish when the buckle changed for these references).

All three buckles were listed at a starting price of 98,000 Yen, and the first two have had single bids placed on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a lot more action to come on all of these - especially given the very strong USD:JPY exchange rate at the moment.

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Grand Seiko 4520-7000

If you prefer your white dialed 4520-7000’s with a deeper patina than on the earlier example, then perhaps this one will tickle your fancy.

The case doesn’t look to be in as good condition, but it’s still a very attractive watch nonetheless. If you like this kind of thing of course!

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It’s not a vintage Grand Seiko, but I like it

Seiko 0654-5000

There are quite a few listings for early digital watches in top condition this week, but this is the one I’m choosing to share with you, because I won’t be chasing it!

The reason why I won’t be chasing it is simply because I already have a NOS example, and picked up its brother just a few weeks ago, from the same seller -

This reference was Seiko’s first ever digital watch with a full calendar - day, date, month and year. For some reason, they are extremely hard to come by in a running state these days, and oddly one the rare occasions when they do turn up running, they often are in NOS condition.

Can’t explain that, but it’s a great piece of digital history!

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Jürgen Voller

The first Grand Seiko with raised logo dial

First up in the bad guys section this week is a watch that has been featured many times before. As discussed previously, I now just list a single watch from this seller each week, and advise you to take a look at the account, and ignore everything he has listed.

Sadly the bidding on this one has already gone past 200,000 Yen, and all bids would seem to be coming from Japanese bidders directly, rather than through one of the proxy services.

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Redone coloured dial summary

I close with the usual reminder to steer clear of any vintage Grand Seikos with coloured dials similar to the above. This is not a comprehensive photo - there are many references that get this “treatment” so be careful out there.

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Ok that’s it for this week - I’m off to swap out a crystal on a watch, and then put it on the robot…

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